I’ve just found some videos on warangan making and using

milandro · 11th April 2022, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Actually, in Javanese, a "babon" is a hen (ie, chicken, chook) that has laid eggs. I think it can also be used to refer to any female animal that has reproduced, but I'm not sure about this.

But it definitely is a laying hen.

yes, indeed, the dictionary says so, I had a look even this morning when I posted the first post of today yet if you look up on Google “ Babon warangan “ it will give a large number of links to Someting called Babon Bibit ( if this helps.... WARANGAN CAIR SIAP PAKAI ( Babon bibit) untuk jamas keris dan tombak pusaka "

among many also a video on a Paket Komplit ( complete package I assume)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcqFXU4CVLk

please look at this video ( for people who understand the language) he mentions the ward babon in the title.

David · 11th April 2022, 06:06 PM

I have done the warangan process a few times on some of my keris with varying results.While i am sure a professional would do a much better job i just did not find it practical to send any of my keris abroad for staining as well as the worry about loss or theft along the way when sending the blade numerous times over great distances to foreign countries. I was fortunate to be able to obtain some lab grade arsenic trioxide some years back and though i have never had any training in handling such material as Alan suggests i treated it with the utmost respect and care and believe i handled it all pretty safely.
I used the brush on method that was described by Alan on this forum some time ago.
I have learned a few things since that i believe might make the procedure even more successful the next time i try it, but i suppose that remains to be seen until i make the next attempt. But while it is a slow and perhaps tedious process to go from a rusty dull blade to something that presents good colour and pamor i don't think it is difficult to be able to at least improve upon the appearance of a keris if you follow simple directions. I do find the videos presented by Milandro to be rather drawn out and overly complicated using methods which seem unnecessary from what i have seen and experienced.
Here is a Bali keris that i stained about 13 years ago. When i found the blade it was not in the best of shape. It had lived in a store window of a curio shop in South Orange, New Jersey for some time and was covered in a thin layer of active rust. The first group of photos shows the keris after i cleaned the rust off with a soak in pineapple juice and regular scrubbings for a couple of days and then gave it a warangan treatment. I must admit that i did not use Tahitian limes, but rather whatever regular limes were available at the supermarket. As described before, i used lab grade arsenic trioxide to make the warangan.
As you can see, my first treatment was weak at best. It was certainly an improvement over the original condition (sorry, i didn't take any before photos) and revealed the pamor pattern, but it was not satisfactory for me. The second set of photos (sorry for the quick and poor cellphone pics as i did not photograph this at the time and just made these now for this post) shows my results from may second attempt on this blade done soon after the first. It is still far from perfect, but i decided not to make another go at it and to live with it as is. The stain seems to have help up well over the more than a dozen years since it was applied.
I do have a few blades i have been wanting to attend to for some time and maybe i will get around to them this year as the weather improves. If i do i will be sure to document the process for thoroughly.

A. G. Maisey · 11th April 2022, 10:12 PM

You probably did use Tahitian limes David, I don't know of any other kind, I only know of different names for the same kind of limes.

I guess that maybe there are a lot of different kinds of limes, but what I see available where I live are just sold as "limes". Those "just limes" are the same as what we use in Jawa where they are called "jeruk pecel", which I was told years ago by a gardener were the same as "Tahitian limes". They work in waranagan the same way, that I do know.

In my descriptions I've always used the term "Tahitian lime" in order to make very clear that we cannot use lemon, because I have seen mention of lemons used for blade staining, and in my experience lemon simply does not work well at all, it makes the blade far too dark, far too quickly.

There is another kind of lime that is common & that we cannot use for staining:- jeruk perut, only the leaves of this are useful, they get used in cooking. I think jeruk perut is called "kaffir lime" in English.

A. G. Maisey · 11th April 2022, 11:28 PM

Thanks for mention of dictionary meanings Milandro. I use dictionaries all the time, but only when I'm doubtful about something, with "babon", the word is BI as well as Javanese, and when I mentioned laying hens I was thinking BI, but your mention of dictionary meanings has prompted me to check the Javanese dictionary too.

What I found is that in Javanese "babon" has a much wider application that in BI, and maybe this makes use of the word associated with a warangan mix a bit more intelligible.

From Robson & Wibisono:-

1 a female animal mate; animal that has reproduced, esp. a hen; mother hen (see also babu); babon angrem - a batik pattern.
2 manuscript, original (also an alternate meaning in BI)
3 capital (to be invested)

if we go to the Balai Bahasa publication, which is the best Javanese dictionary of which I have knowledge, we find an even wider application of the word. This dictionary is a Javanese dictionary for use by Javanese people, so the entries are in Basa Jawa.

Anthony G. · 12th April 2022, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I have done the warangan process a few times on some of my keris with varying results.While i am sure a professional would do a much better job i just did not find it practical to send any of my keris abroad for staining as well as the worry about loss or theft along the way when sending the blade numerous times over great distances to foreign countries. I was fortunate to be able to obtain some lab grade arsenic trioxide some years back and though i have never had any training in handling such material as Alan suggests i treated it with the utmost respect and care and believe i handled it all pretty safely.
I used the brush on method that was described by Alan on this forum some time ago.
I have learned a few things since that i believe might make the procedure even more successful the next time i try it, but i suppose that remains to be seen until i make the next attempt. But while it is a slow and perhaps tedious process to go from a rusty dull blade to something that presents good colour and pamor i don't think it is difficult to be able to at least improve upon the appearance of a keris if you follow simple directions. I do find the videos presented by Milandro to be rather drawn out and overly complicated using methods which seem unnecessary from what i have seen and experienced.
Here is a Bali keris that i stained about 13 years ago. When i found the blade it was not in the best of shape. It had lived in a store window of a curio shop in South Orange, New Jersey for some time and was covered in a thin layer of active rust. The first group of photos shows the keris after i cleaned the rust off with a soak in pineapple juice and regular scrubbings for a couple of days and then gave it a warangan treatment. I must admit that i did not use Tahitian limes, but rather whatever regular limes were available at the supermarket. As described before, i used lab grade arsenic trioxide to make the warangan.
As you can see, my first treatment was weak at best. It was certainly an improvement over the original condition (sorry, i didn't take any before photos) and revealed the pamor pattern, but it was not satisfactory for me. The second set of photos (sorry for the quick and poor cellphone pics as i did not photograph this at the time and just made these now for this post) shows my results from may second attempt on this blade done soon after the first. It is still far from perfect, but i decided not to make another go at it and to live with it as is. The stain seems to have help up well over the more than a dozen years since it was applied.
I do have a few blades i have been wanting to attend to for some time and maybe i will get around to them this year as the weather improves. If i do i will be sure to document the process for thoroughly.

nice.

milandro · 12th April 2022, 08:05 AM

Cheers Alan aside from the dictionary meaning, the fact that searching for the word Babon together with warangan on google returns a large number of hits all to do with products meant to stain blades looking the same must mean that Babon refers to this kind of thing in whatever way. If you search babon warangan for images it will only show this kind of products

this is a screen shot of the search for images

A. G. Maisey · 12th April 2022, 08:36 AM

Thanks Milandro, but I don't use google searches much where keris are concerned, I much prefer to rely on my own experience.

I use google for things i might want to buy, or for quick possible answers on things I don't know, or for things to do with travel --- hasn't been much of that lately.

All this stuff that relates to mixtures & etc for warangan looks to me like preparation of the stuff used for commercial staining of large numbers of blades, it is very definitely not in the smallest degree relative to the type staining I've seen done, or that I have done myself or that I have taught to other people.

My interest in the use of the word "babon" in a context that I have not seen nor heard previously is more to do with enquiry into language rather than enquiry into these warangan mixes.

milandro · 12th April 2022, 08:42 AM

It, was just to show that a number of people use the word babon in a warangan context.

Also in the last link to the video above (I will repeat here) there is a video where this guy mentions babon in the tile and shows it during the video, sicne you understand the language it may clarify the use of the word.

“ Cara Membuat Larutan Warangan dengan Babon”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcqFXU4CVLk

A. G. Maisey · 12th April 2022, 09:26 AM

I believe i understand the relationship between the warangan solution & the word "babon" now.

The "babon" relates to the idea of beginning a reaction, just as a hen begins life by laying an egg. The word "bibit" means seed, or origin, or beginning, and that word is there somewhere too. so "babon" & "bibit" both relate in general terms to the idea of origin, just as a hen originates a beginning by the laying of a an egg that will produce a chicken. The reference attached to babon is one of origin, the beinning of something, and in this context that makes sense.

I find that it helps me to understand something, both in English, and in other languages if I can understand the relationships between ideas and words, not just pick up a word and use it without some sort of understanding of the net of ideas that drive the word.

As I have said, my interest was in use of the word, rather than in the substance that the word referred to.

As for videos, well, they need to be really good to convince me to spend any of my very limited time in watching them. I've never been able to get through a complete keris related video, best I can usually manage is a few minutes. If it was 70 or so years ago, and I was just beginning to find my feet with the keris, it would probably be quite different, I'd probably spend hours looking for all the keris related videos I could find, but the problem for me is that there is so much misinformation, misunderstanding and just plain bovine excreta on the net that relates to keris, I get turned off very, very quickly. With keris, I got out of kindergarten a very long time ago.

11th April 2022, 06:06 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	I have done the warangan process a few times on some of my keris with varying results.While i am sure a professional would do a much better job i just did not find it practical to send any of my keris abroad for staining as well as the worry about loss or theft along the way when sending the blade numerous times over great distances to foreign countries. I was fortunate to be able to obtain some lab grade arsenic trioxide some years back and though i have never had any training in handling such material as Alan suggests i treated it with the utmost respect and care and believe i handled it all pretty safely. I used the brush on method that was described by Alan on this forum some time ago. I have learned a few things since that i believe might make the procedure even more successful the next time i try it, but i suppose that remains to be seen until i make the next attempt. But while it is a slow and perhaps tedious process to go from a rusty dull blade to something that presents good colour and pamor i don't think it is difficult to be able to at least improve upon the appearance of a keris if you follow simple directions. I do find the videos presented by Milandro to be rather drawn out and overly complicated using methods which seem unnecessary from what i have seen and experienced. Here is a Bali keris that i stained about 13 years ago. When i found the blade it was not in the best of shape. It had lived in a store window of a curio shop in South Orange, New Jersey for some time and was covered in a thin layer of active rust. The first group of photos shows the keris after i cleaned the rust off with a soak in pineapple juice and regular scrubbings for a couple of days and then gave it a warangan treatment. I must admit that i did not use Tahitian limes, but rather whatever regular limes were available at the supermarket. As described before, i used lab grade arsenic trioxide to make the warangan. As you can see, my first treatment was weak at best. It was certainly an improvement over the original condition (sorry, i didn't take any before photos) and revealed the pamor pattern, but it was not satisfactory for me. The second set of photos (sorry for the quick and poor cellphone pics as i did not photograph this at the time and just made these now for this post) shows my results from may second attempt on this blade done soon after the first. It is still far from perfect, but i decided not to make another go at it and to live with it as is. The stain seems to have help up well over the more than a dozen years since it was applied. I do have a few blades i have been wanting to attend to for some time and maybe i will get around to them this year as the weather improves. If i do i will be sure to document the process for thoroughly. Attached Images

12th April 2022, 08:05 AM	#6
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 487	Cheers Alan aside from the dictionary meaning, the fact that searching for the word Babon together with warangan on google returns a large number of hits all to do with products meant to stain blades looking the same must mean that Babon refers to this kind of thing in whatever way. If you search babon warangan for images it will only show this kind of products this is a screen shot of the search for images Attached Images

11th April 2022, 10:12 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	You probably did use Tahitian limes David, I don't know of any other kind, I only know of different names for the same kind of limes. I guess that maybe there are a lot of different kinds of limes, but what I see available where I live are just sold as "limes". Those "just limes" are the same as what we use in Jawa where they are called "jeruk pecel", which I was told years ago by a gardener were the same as "Tahitian limes". They work in waranagan the same way, that I do know. In my descriptions I've always used the term "Tahitian lime" in order to make very clear that we cannot use lemon, because I have seen mention of lemons used for blade staining, and in my experience lemon simply does not work well at all, it makes the blade far too dark, far too quickly. There is another kind of lime that is common & that we cannot use for staining:- jeruk perut, only the leaves of this are useful, they get used in cooking. I think jeruk perut is called "kaffir lime" in English.

11th April 2022, 11:28 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	Thanks for mention of dictionary meanings Milandro. I use dictionaries all the time, but only when I'm doubtful about something, with "babon", the word is BI as well as Javanese, and when I mentioned laying hens I was thinking BI, but your mention of dictionary meanings has prompted me to check the Javanese dictionary too. What I found is that in Javanese "babon" has a much wider application that in BI, and maybe this makes use of the word associated with a warangan mix a bit more intelligible. From Robson & Wibisono:- 1 a female animal mate; animal that has reproduced, esp. a hen; mother hen (see also babu); babon angrem - a batik pattern. 2 manuscript, original (also an alternate meaning in BI) 3 capital (to be invested) if we go to the Balai Bahasa publication, which is the best Javanese dictionary of which I have knowledge, we find an even wider application of the word. This dictionary is a Javanese dictionary for use by Javanese people, so the entries are in Basa Jawa.

12th April 2022, 08:36 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	Thanks Milandro, but I don't use google searches much where keris are concerned, I much prefer to rely on my own experience. I use google for things i might want to buy, or for quick possible answers on things I don't know, or for things to do with travel --- hasn't been much of that lately. All this stuff that relates to mixtures & etc for warangan looks to me like preparation of the stuff used for commercial staining of large numbers of blades, it is very definitely not in the smallest degree relative to the type staining I've seen done, or that I have done myself or that I have taught to other people. My interest in the use of the word "babon" in a context that I have not seen nor heard previously is more to do with enquiry into language rather than enquiry into these warangan mixes.

12th April 2022, 08:42 AM	#8
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 487	It, was just to show that a number of people use the word babon in a warangan context. Also in the last link to the video above (I will repeat here) there is a video where this guy mentions babon in the tile and shows it during the video, sicne you understand the language it may clarify the use of the word. “ Cara Membuat Larutan Warangan dengan Babon” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcqFXU4CVLk

12th April 2022, 09:26 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	I believe i understand the relationship between the warangan solution & the word "babon" now. The "babon" relates to the idea of beginning a reaction, just as a hen begins life by laying an egg. The word "bibit" means seed, or origin, or beginning, and that word is there somewhere too. so "babon" & "bibit" both relate in general terms to the idea of origin, just as a hen originates a beginning by the laying of a an egg that will produce a chicken. The reference attached to babon is one of origin, the beinning of something, and in this context that makes sense. I find that it helps me to understand something, both in English, and in other languages if I can understand the relationships between ideas and words, not just pick up a word and use it without some sort of understanding of the net of ideas that drive the word. As I have said, my interest was in use of the word, rather than in the substance that the word referred to. As for videos, well, they need to be really good to convince me to spend any of my very limited time in watching them. I've never been able to get through a complete keris related video, best I can usually manage is a few minutes. If it was 70 or so years ago, and I was just beginning to find my feet with the keris, it would probably be quite different, I'd probably spend hours looking for all the keris related videos I could find, but the problem for me is that there is so much misinformation, misunderstanding and just plain bovine excreta on the net that relates to keris, I get turned off very, very quickly. With keris, I got out of kindergarten a very long time ago.