Indonesian Knife for Identification

Jerseyman · 16th February 2022, 08:35 PM

Another recent acquisition. These are dealer's pictures, I've not yet seen the item in person, and of course have no dimensions to share.

As with my previous post it seems that paper has been used to wedge the blade into a damaged hilt, and it will need a clean. The scabbard is missing its locket and rattan bands.

I assume this is a Tjikeroeh blade, and probably for domestic use?

I'm unsure of its exact classification and would welcome any information.

Thanks

Albert · 16th February 2022, 09:02 PM

It is a 'Bendo' form Cikeruh, Java.

TJIKR on the blade is an abbreviation of Tjikeroeh (old spelling of Cikeruh).

The Bendo is mainly used for cutting rattan.

Sajen · 17th February 2022, 12:01 AM

Hello JM,

A lot stuff to read but it may help: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=bedok

For deeper understanding:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=bendo

further: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=bedok

You can call it bendho, some will agree but to my understanding it's a bedok.

But Albert can maybe tell us from where he took this name bendo for these knives?
There was a long discussion about this name game before, see second posted thread.

Regards,
Detlef

kai · 17th February 2022, 11:15 AM

Good example!

I agree with Detlef: Bedok seems to be the best supported name for these utility blades.

As usual, names can change from one village to the next, etc.!

Regards,
Kai

asomotif · 17th February 2022, 11:02 PM

Hello Jerseyman,

I am pretty sure that this scabbard had brass bands, and not rattan or horn like others.

Best regards,
Willem

naturalist · 18th February 2022, 04:34 AM

Bedog, how "G" pronounced in the end is similar to clog
As far as i remember, most of people in West Java to the border of Central Java to West Java (Cirebon, Tegal and Purworkerto) will call it as bedog

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Good example!

I agree with Detlef: Bedok seems to be the best supported name for these utility blades.

As usual, names can change from one village to the next, etc.!

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 18th February 2022, 06:35 AM

bedog or bedok ?

"g" as in "dog", or a glottal stop?

kai · 18th February 2022, 07:33 AM

Thanks for catching that, Anton!

Quote:

Bedog, how "G" pronounced in the end is similar to clog
As far as i remember, most of people in West Java to the border of Central Java to West Java (Cirebon, Tegal and Purworkerto) will call it as bedog

This is most likely also true for the heart of Sunda: Rigg 1862 (A dictionary of the Sunda language of Java) also gives it as Bedog!

Note to self: Always double-check!

Regards,
Kai

kai · 18th February 2022, 07:35 AM

Quote:

"g" as in "dog", or a glottal stop?

Maybe JB or any other native speakers of Sunda could confirm?

kai · 18th February 2022, 07:41 AM

Quote:

I am pretty sure that this scabbard had brass bands, and not rattan or horn like others.

I'm with Willem here: Looks like staining left by brass bands.

The missing mouthpiece of the scabbard might have been from wood (or horn) - anyway, seems to have been covered by brass, too.

Regards,
Kai

naturalist · 18th February 2022, 11:35 AM

G as in dog

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

bedog or bedok ?

"g" as in "dog", or a glottal stop?

naturalist · 18th February 2022, 12:21 PM

Some say; golok/bedog cepot (cepot is one of characters in punakawan) or bedog petok..
Mainly for splitting things (wood, coconut fronds), i love to use it to open young coconut fruit, very handy to do this job with this type of bedog.
I do have one, not fancy but very well made.
I am pretty sure, it won't handy for cutting rattan.
I am not a rattan farmer or collecting rattan from the forest.
I do have years of experience living in the forest (used to be a biologist, posted in a research station in the middle of the forest for years, and did lots of surveys), i saw that people in some areas prefer tools that have hooks similar to bill hook (to get a rid the leaves and thorn) to look for rattan or just simply a golok (ordinary Tjibatu or Bantenese type of golok). But again rattan has hundreds of species, many are less than 1 cm for its diameter, lots have more than 3cmm in diameter (this one, you should cut the tree before harvesting the rattan, ax or chainsaw may needed). Just back from Central Kalimantan (Borneo) two weeks ago, where so many rattan plantations. Saw a very "weird" knife that used to cut rattan (i could send it to someone's email in here to be posted), just like a blacksmith knife but it has an elongated handle (no scale at all) and has no tip (square like a leather knife that uses in Japan/Korea).

Sajen · 18th February 2022, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I'm with Willem here: Looks like staining left by brass bands.

The missing mouthpiece of the scabbard might have been from wood (or horn) - anyway, seems to have been covered by brass, too.

Yes, most probably brass bands like by the upper one in the picture.

asomotif · 18th February 2022, 10:37 PM

Hello Detlef, yes that type of brass bands,

I have a big brother of this bendo / bedok / bedog.

Sajen · 19th February 2022, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Hello Detlef, yes that type of brass bands,

I have a big brother of this bendo / bedok / bedog.

Hello Willem,

Nice golok! And yes, the same brass bands again.

Regards,
Detlef

jagabuwana · 24th February 2022, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Maybe JB or any other native speakers of Sunda could confirm?

Am I JB? Have I been summoned?

The "g" in bedog is a hard g (as in dog, fog, beg).

It is not a glottal stop as is often found in BI or Javanese pronunciations when a word ends in a k.
Nor is it a hard k sound as in black.

The Sundanese my family speak is the Priangan variant, which is I guess the "heartland" Sundanese you refer to Kai. Personally I have not seen it being spelled or pronounced as "bedok" before.

16th February 2022, 08:35 PM	#1
Jerseyman Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 97	Indonesian Knife for Identification Another recent acquisition. These are dealer's pictures, I've not yet seen the item in person, and of course have no dimensions to share. As with my previous post it seems that paper has been used to wedge the blade into a damaged hilt, and it will need a clean. The scabbard is missing its locket and rattan bands. I assume this is a Tjikeroeh blade, and probably for domestic use? I'm unsure of its exact classification and would welcome any information. Thanks Attached Images

16th February 2022, 09:02 PM	#2
Albert Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 194	Bendo It is a 'Bendo' form Cikeruh, Java. TJIKR on the blade is an abbreviation of Tjikeroeh (old spelling of Cikeruh). The Bendo is mainly used for cutting rattan.

18th February 2022, 12:21 PM	#12
naturalist Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 64	Some say; golok/bedog cepot (cepot is one of characters in punakawan) or bedog petok.. Mainly for splitting things (wood, coconut fronds), i love to use it to open young coconut fruit, very handy to do this job with this type of bedog. I do have one, not fancy but very well made. I am pretty sure, it won't handy for cutting rattan. I am not a rattan farmer or collecting rattan from the forest. I do have years of experience living in the forest (used to be a biologist, posted in a research station in the middle of the forest for years, and did lots of surveys), i saw that people in some areas prefer tools that have hooks similar to bill hook (to get a rid the leaves and thorn) to look for rattan or just simply a golok (ordinary Tjibatu or Bantenese type of golok). But again rattan has hundreds of species, many are less than 1 cm for its diameter, lots have more than 3cmm in diameter (this one, you should cut the tree before harvesting the rattan, ax or chainsaw may needed). Just back from Central Kalimantan (Borneo) two weeks ago, where so many rattan plantations. Saw a very "weird" knife that used to cut rattan (i could send it to someone's email in here to be posted), just like a blacksmith knife but it has an elongated handle (no scale at all) and has no tip (square like a leather knife that uses in Japan/Korea). Last edited by naturalist; 18th February 2022 at 12:35 PM.

18th February 2022, 10:37 PM	#14
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,224	Hello Detlef, yes that type of brass bands, I have a big brother of this bendo / bedok / bedog. Attached Images

17th February 2022, 12:01 AM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,761	Hello JM, A lot stuff to read but it may help: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=bedok For deeper understanding: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=bendo further: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=bedok You can call it bendho, some will agree but to my understanding it's a bedok. But Albert can maybe tell us from where he took this name bendo for these knives? There was a long discussion about this name game before, see second posted thread. Regards, Detlef

17th February 2022, 11:15 AM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Good example! I agree with Detlef: Bedok seems to be the best supported name for these utility blades. As usual, names can change from one village to the next, etc.! Regards, Kai

17th February 2022, 11:02 PM	#5
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,224	Hello Jerseyman, I am pretty sure that this scabbard had brass bands, and not rattan or horn like others. Best regards, Willem

18th February 2022, 06:35 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,882	bedog or bedok ? "g" as in "dog", or a glottal stop?