Native American Spears (New aquisition).

Helleri · 7th February 2022, 06:11 PM

I was given these as part of helping a neighbor clean out their basement. They said they are Native American. They don't recall where they came from exactly but they got them locally some years ago. They have no idea about age of pieces or tribe/nation they came from.

In my own estimation they seem to be rather generic Native art wall hangers that were likely made to sell. At least the larger one does. The shaft of the larger one appears to have been made from something like a closest pole. The bead work is not top notch either. While they are glass beads they were not tucked as tightly as they should have been in all parts of the pattern (I've checked for half busted beads in the gap and I believe none were lost. It just seems misaligned through twisting action).

The smaller one feel more functional. It actually has sinew that keeps the end from completely splintering. The shaft is made of a bark shaved stick (still has little nodules from twigs on it and has a more natural straightness). The bead work is a lot tighter and actually has a few different size and shaped beads mixed in.

The spear heads of either are not well made. They are of course not finely shaped, there are a lot of clear poor strikes with a hammer (however they are clearly hammered out from a rod stock as apposed to ground from flat stock) that were not corrected with filing.

Ultimately I was paid fairly for my work and these were essentially free (they would have been tossed in the trash if I didn't take them). So I can't really complain. But besides perhaps a little light cleaning and oiling I'm not really highly invested in them. Just thought I'd post up here to get people's thoughts on them. Also maybe someone can help me with the image formatting here. I tried using the upload images thing but that didn't seem to work and these are scaled weirdly as links.

David R · 7th February 2022, 10:59 PM

I would give serious consideration to them being South African in origin.

Battara · 8th February 2022, 01:37 AM

I agree. My first thought was South African too.

Helleri · 8th February 2022, 05:36 PM

Oh wow so the previous owner could be way off in what they thought about their origins. Interesting. Is there anything in specific that lends to this?

Tim Simmons · 8th February 2022, 06:46 PM

just google south African bead decorated spears

Battara · 9th February 2022, 12:33 AM

Native American blades were usually made of stone or trade steel in Western form.

These spear heads are in South African form, plus the Zulu like bead work, plus the size of the shafts used later in South Africa called assegai are the basis of my opinion.

Helleri · 9th February 2022, 03:35 PM

So I've been sat here comparing images and I feel kind of dumb, lol. There are so many obvious markers of Native American spears that these simply do not posses. The first thing I notice is though there are a lot of Native American spears with metal spear heads. The heads are not much wider in diameter than the shafts (by a few millimeters at best). Nor do they really have a non bladed portion to them.

Also the way they tend to be mounted is entirely different from these. They're mounted the same way one might mount a flint head. Sat inside a notch as apposed to these which are rods inside a hole.

Native American spears also tend to have a lot of tassels or dangling bits otherwise, with holes often drilled into the shafts to accommodate them. As well as full shaft enclosure with some sort of wrapping. As mentioned previously here they also tend to be a lot longer. Which makes sense given the frequency at which they would have been used from horse back.

But compared with known South African spears. These are dead ringers. Everything about them screams South African. The thing is I have seen plenty of south African Spears on these very forums. I'm kicking myself here for not having heard her say "Native American" and going "Ehhhhh...I don't think so." It's been so long since I've had a new acquisition (and I wasn't even on the lookout for anything) that I guess I left my critical eye behind.

Thanks all for weighing in on this.

Ian · 14th February 2022, 10:24 AM

Helleri,

Don't get too down on yourself mate. We all make mistakes in the collecting game. I have a few items in my drawer of "regret." Some of them are OK pieces, just not what I thought they were, others are poor quality or more modern decorative items, and then there are a few fakes as well. It happens ...

Cheers,

Ian

Battara · 15th February 2022, 12:45 AM

Many of us (if not all) have draws of regret. As Rsword likes to say, "It is the price of education".

Helleri · 15th February 2022, 04:32 PM

At least these are not really a regret for me. They were free and convenient so I can't really complain. They're also not the worst. Far from the best. But given the size of my place I haven't had any spears in years. These are short enough that I can keep them rolled in the cotton batting they came with and leaned in a corner. It's a what do you want for free thing to me.

7th February 2022, 06:11 PM	#1
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	Native American Spears (New aquisition). I was given these as part of helping a neighbor clean out their basement. They said they are Native American. They don't recall where they came from exactly but they got them locally some years ago. They have no idea about age of pieces or tribe/nation they came from. In my own estimation they seem to be rather generic Native art wall hangers that were likely made to sell. At least the larger one does. The shaft of the larger one appears to have been made from something like a closest pole. The bead work is not top notch either. While they are glass beads they were not tucked as tightly as they should have been in all parts of the pattern (I've checked for half busted beads in the gap and I believe none were lost. It just seems misaligned through twisting action). The smaller one feel more functional. It actually has sinew that keeps the end from completely splintering. The shaft is made of a bark shaved stick (still has little nodules from twigs on it and has a more natural straightness). The bead work is a lot tighter and actually has a few different size and shaped beads mixed in. The spear heads of either are not well made. They are of course not finely shaped, there are a lot of clear poor strikes with a hammer (however they are clearly hammered out from a rod stock as apposed to ground from flat stock) that were not corrected with filing. Ultimately I was paid fairly for my work and these were essentially free (they would have been tossed in the trash if I didn't take them). So I can't really complain. But besides perhaps a little light cleaning and oiling I'm not really highly invested in them. Just thought I'd post up here to get people's thoughts on them. Also maybe someone can help me with the image formatting here. I tried using the upload images thing but that didn't seem to work and these are scaled weirdly as links.

7th February 2022, 10:59 PM	#2
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	I would give serious consideration to them being South African in origin. Attached Images

8th February 2022, 01:37 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I agree. My first thought was South African too.

8th February 2022, 05:36 PM	#4
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	Oh wow so the previous owner could be way off in what they thought about their origins. Interesting. Is there anything in specific that lends to this?

8th February 2022, 06:46 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	just google south African bead decorated spears

9th February 2022, 12:33 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Native American blades were usually made of stone or trade steel in Western form. These spear heads are in South African form, plus the Zulu like bead work, plus the size of the shafts used later in South Africa called assegai are the basis of my opinion.

9th February 2022, 03:35 PM	#7
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	So I've been sat here comparing images and I feel kind of dumb, lol. There are so many obvious markers of Native American spears that these simply do not posses. The first thing I notice is though there are a lot of Native American spears with metal spear heads. The heads are not much wider in diameter than the shafts (by a few millimeters at best). Nor do they really have a non bladed portion to them. Also the way they tend to be mounted is entirely different from these. They're mounted the same way one might mount a flint head. Sat inside a notch as apposed to these which are rods inside a hole. Native American spears also tend to have a lot of tassels or dangling bits otherwise, with holes often drilled into the shafts to accommodate them. As well as full shaft enclosure with some sort of wrapping. As mentioned previously here they also tend to be a lot longer. Which makes sense given the frequency at which they would have been used from horse back. But compared with known South African spears. These are dead ringers. Everything about them screams South African. The thing is I have seen plenty of south African Spears on these very forums. I'm kicking myself here for not having heard her say "Native American" and going "Ehhhhh...I don't think so." It's been so long since I've had a new acquisition (and I wasn't even on the lookout for anything) that I guess I left my critical eye behind. Thanks all for weighing in on this.

14th February 2022, 10:24 AM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,194	Helleri, Don't get too down on yourself mate. We all make mistakes in the collecting game. I have a few items in my drawer of "regret." Some of them are OK pieces, just not what I thought they were, others are poor quality or more modern decorative items, and then there are a few fakes as well. It happens ... Cheers, Ian

15th February 2022, 12:45 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Many of us (if not all) have draws of regret. As Rsword likes to say, "It is the price of education".

15th February 2022, 04:32 PM	#10
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	At least these are not really a regret for me. They were free and convenient so I can't really complain. They're also not the worst. Far from the best. But given the size of my place I haven't had any spears in years. These are short enough that I can keep them rolled in the cotton batting they came with and leaned in a corner. It's a what do you want for free thing to me.