Watering on a tulwar blade

tom hyle · 28th January 2005, 03:45 AM

Unfortuneately my mind is such as to rarely provide documentary or referential sources; a constant difficulty for those who recieve communication from me....
There is recurrent confusion around the term Tartar; for many centuries it is commonly used to refer to the primarily Turkic peoples of the Eurasian stepper, commonly including, but not limitted to Kazaks, Turks, Huigars, Mongols, etc. Also for centuries, it has been used to refer to specific tribes, often somewhat localized of course.
There seem to be 3 possible explanations that come to mind:
1/Some Tartars live nearby. You are not a Tartar. They are Tartars, and that's enough for you; your people don't know their tribal name; you don't know any other Tartars; you think they're "Tartars."
2/There are tribes that seem to have no other name but "Crimean Tartars" or "Blue Tartars" (though how much this is a foriegn inaccuracy is unclear). Such tribes may become in shorthand "Tartars" to someone who is unaware of the broader implications of the term. Essentially similar to #1
3/It was originally the name of one tribe, and got more generally applied, as with Roman, Zulu, Mongol....the problem I see with this is this usually occurs through conspicuous conquest, and we know other names for conspicuously conquering/ruling Tartar tribes, like Mongol and Turk?.....
All this confusion is not helped by the fact that these people, their culture, and their vast historical influence, are largely ignored in the "West", and after the irritating way of "Science" which seeks boundaries more often than centers (by it's defining nature), who get attached to the other cultural areas they border, rather than being seen as their own; so Huigars and Manchus are viewed as Chinese, Cossaks and Magyars as Slavs/Europeans, Turks as psuedo-Arabic, etc. Of course there's blending along cultural borders, but this case seems to be only looked at in that one way; as a vast frontier between cultural realms, rather than a valid and important realm in its own right, and I think that this is, well, bogus.
So Tartar Tartar Tartar, say I; let's all eat a bagel and some yogurt

Mare Rosu · 28th January 2005, 07:03 PM

JENS
I also had the first impression on the scratches as did TOM HYLE That the scratches were sort of an "erasure" of something prior that was on the blade. However you sort of put that idea to sleep.
Jens
You stated that you had the inscriptions translated. Would you care to share with us what that translation is?

You may not be aware of my expertise on edge weapons, I know a blade from the pointie end to da other end, and I offer my service to you, sir. At no cost to you I will be more than happy to inspect your blade and give you my 100% guarantee as to what the sword is. All you have to do is send me the sword for a complete examination. The total time for the me to do this will be a few years as I want you to be satisfied on my analysis.

Jens Nordlunde · 28th January 2005, 07:17 PM

Hi,

Thank you for your kind offer, but unfortunately I had to put the blade into an acid bath which will last a month or so – but I still think the hilt is nice

Jens

Jens Nordlunde · 28th January 2005, 09:51 PM

Sorry I did oversee your question. The Farsi text says 'Bakar', which means 'spring', but can also be a name. For the translation of the Indian script I have no answer.

Jens

Mare Rosu · 28th January 2005, 10:02 PM

JENS
Thank you for the inscription reading and not getting upset on my request to inspect your sword.

However I think I know why you call it watering because that long in an acid bath will most definitely bring out the watering. it's called TEARS!
Now about the hilt, want me to inspect it? Same offer

Earl Gene

Jens Nordlunde · 29th January 2005, 09:20 AM

You are very insistent about inspecting the stuff, but you see, the hilt is so heavy, that the postage will be more than the hilt is worth.

You are ringht, that is from where the word 'watering' origins.
Jens

Jens Nordlunde · 6th February 2005, 02:59 PM

Sorry Gene, I never gave you the translation – here it is.
On the yelman two names: Hassan and Sannan.
The translation of the cartouche is: War is surprise – so one must be on guard.

Jens

28th January 2005, 07:03 PM	#2
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	OFFER JENS I also had the first impression on the scratches as did TOM HYLE That the scratches were sort of an "erasure" of something prior that was on the blade. However you sort of put that idea to sleep. Jens You stated that you had the inscriptions translated. Would you care to share with us what that translation is? You may not be aware of my expertise on edge weapons, I know a blade from the pointie end to da other end, and I offer my service to you, sir. At no cost to you I will be more than happy to inspect your blade and give you my 100% guarantee as to what the sword is. All you have to do is send me the sword for a complete examination. The total time for the me to do this will be a few years as I want you to be satisfied on my analysis.

28th January 2005, 10:02 PM	#5
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	Tears JENS Thank you for the inscription reading and not getting upset on my request to inspect your sword. However I think I know why you call it watering because that long in an acid bath will most definitely bring out the watering. it's called TEARS! Now about the hilt, want me to inspect it? Same offer Earl Gene

28th January 2005, 03:45 AM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Unfortuneately my mind is such as to rarely provide documentary or referential sources; a constant difficulty for those who recieve communication from me.... There is recurrent confusion around the term Tartar; for many centuries it is commonly used to refer to the primarily Turkic peoples of the Eurasian stepper, commonly including, but not limitted to Kazaks, Turks, Huigars, Mongols, etc. Also for centuries, it has been used to refer to specific tribes, often somewhat localized of course. There seem to be 3 possible explanations that come to mind: 1/Some Tartars live nearby. You are not a Tartar. They are Tartars, and that's enough for you; your people don't know their tribal name; you don't know any other Tartars; you think they're "Tartars." 2/There are tribes that seem to have no other name but "Crimean Tartars" or "Blue Tartars" (though how much this is a foriegn inaccuracy is unclear). Such tribes may become in shorthand "Tartars" to someone who is unaware of the broader implications of the term. Essentially similar to #1 3/It was originally the name of one tribe, and got more generally applied, as with Roman, Zulu, Mongol....the problem I see with this is this usually occurs through conspicuous conquest, and we know other names for conspicuously conquering/ruling Tartar tribes, like Mongol and Turk?..... All this confusion is not helped by the fact that these people, their culture, and their vast historical influence, are largely ignored in the "West", and after the irritating way of "Science" which seeks boundaries more often than centers (by it's defining nature), who get attached to the other cultural areas they border, rather than being seen as their own; so Huigars and Manchus are viewed as Chinese, Cossaks and Magyars as Slavs/Europeans, Turks as psuedo-Arabic, etc. Of course there's blending along cultural borders, but this case seems to be only looked at in that one way; as a vast frontier between cultural realms, rather than a valid and important realm in its own right, and I think that this is, well, bogus. So Tartar Tartar Tartar, say I; let's all eat a bagel and some yogurt

28th January 2005, 07:17 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi, Thank you for your kind offer, but unfortunately I had to put the blade into an acid bath which will last a month or so – but I still think the hilt is nice Jens

28th January 2005, 09:51 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Sorry I did oversee your question. The Farsi text says 'Bakar', which means 'spring', but can also be a name. For the translation of the Indian script I have no answer. Jens

29th January 2005, 09:20 AM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	You are very insistent about inspecting the stuff, but you see, the hilt is so heavy, that the postage will be more than the hilt is worth. You are ringht, that is from where the word 'watering' origins. Jens

6th February 2005, 02:59 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Sorry Gene, I never gave you the translation – here it is. On the yelman two names: Hassan and Sannan. The translation of the cartouche is: War is surprise – so one must be on guard. Jens