Question about preserving a keris

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

I would love to revive this thread with more relevant questions on how to best preserving Keris if you don't mind. If I may..

It's Balinese Keris.
I take on point of view where I see Keris as exceptional piece of art rich with philosophical and cultural values. I am not a spiritual person. Therefore I tend to take a more practical approach on Keris but still acknowledging its esoteric aspects where they fit.

Condition of the Keris: is in great shape with golden kinatah and ruby on the lion's mouth. No rust, with notable pamor shown on the wilah.
Condition of the Warangka: It is a contemporary warangka with intricate carvings. It's made from kayu arang and in good shape with a few mild 'woodish brown' spots which I'm totally unsure of if they're just dirt or scuffs or something else.
Condition of Selut: Silver selut, in great condition.
Condition of Hilt: It's also from kayu arang with gold and silver. The silver and gold have lost their luster and looking dull.

My questions are
For wilah: Is gun oil a good rust prevention for Keris; if it is, can I lather it on the kinatah as well?
Most if not all Keris owners in Indonesia use some type of floral oils. Is that the same as 100% pure essential oils? Some of the oils are reddish in color, so I wonder, is it not going to stain the wilah or its pamor?
There is also a suggestion to drench the wilah in WD40 prior to oiling, is that practice ok as well with keris with kinatah, and will it remove the warangan thus affecting the contrast of the pamor?

For warangka: What should I use to protect the kayu arang and preserve the carvings, any suggestions for its silver pendak as well?

For hilt: This piece is so detailed. How do I bring back the luster without compromising the kayu arang?

I appreciate your suggestions and the discussions!

Should perhaps this post be moved to http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27622 ?

[David]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

Should perhaps this post be moved to http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27622 ?

That might be better. If we want to consolidate responses to your questions it isn't a good idea to revive every old post on the subject. We can place links to these old posts all under one heading in your new thread.

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by David

That might be better. If we want to consolidate responses to your questions it isn't a good idea to revive every old post on the subject. We can place links to these old posts all under one heading in your new thread.

I don't know how to move post(s) from one thread to the other, could you advise? I would like to move Allan's response above as well if possible.

[David]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

I don't know how to move post(s) from one thread to the other, could you advise? I would like to move Allan's response above as well if possible.

Only moderators can sort that out. But i will be honest with you. We are not going to keep moving single posts around. There is a post in the Stickies for this forum that lists "Classic" posts. Rick and i will try to find the best post(s) to include there on the subject of cleaning and preserving and place a link in the "Classics" entry.

[A. G. Maisey]

SJ, the plastic I use is purchased in 100 meter rolls, it is used in Indonesia by people who sell snack foods, they fold and seal one end over a candle, put the food inside, then seal the other end, it comes in various widths & various thicknesses.

When I have run out of it, I've used sandwich cling wrap. I only wrap the blade and I normally store that oiled and wrapped blade in the wrongko, usually with the top inch or so of the blade not in the wrongko. This is practical, and I have had some keris stored like this for more than 50 years with only an occasional re-oil. I live waterfront to a salt water lake. Those blades are as good now as they were when I first stored them.

But if you want the best way to do it --- short of modern museum conditions --- you should store each part separately.

Medicinal paraffin is mineral oil, so is Singer sewing machine oil.

There are better oils for protection than what I prefer, but gun oil has an ugly smell on keris, I use gun oil on my firearms, I use light mineral oil and aromatic oil on my keris.

If the applied gold is true kinatah it has been mechanically fixed, but a lot of current era "kinatah" is fixed with adhesive. If your keris has genuine, mechanically fixed kinatah, the oil will not harm it, if it has "kinatah" fixed with adhesive, it will loosen over time when oil is applied.

I have never observed any unwanted blade staining with any oil I have ever used.

The easiest way to keep silver looking good is to use a silver polishing cloth. I only ever use Goddards, which is made in England. I have tried other brands in the past and have found them unsatisfactory in one way or another.

The hilt will definitely require some patience & delicacy in maintenance, but that maintenance does not need to be often, I leave things go for years sometimes, I do not have the time, nor the inclination to fiddle around with literally hundreds of keris continually, and I do not have the money to pay somebody to do it for me. I do things very infrequently, but when I do work on my collection I do it properly and do it once.

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

SJ, the plastic I use is purchased in 100 meter rolls, it is used in Indonesia by people who sell snack foods, they fold and seal one end over a candle, put the food inside, then seal the other end, it comes in various widths & various thicknesses.

When I have run out of it, I've used sandwich cling wrap. I only wrap the blade and I normally store that oiled and wrapped blade in the wrongko, usually with the top inch or so of the blade not in the wrongko. This is practical, and I have had some keris stored like this for more than 50 years with only an occasional re-oil. I live waterfront to a salt water lake. Those blades are as good now as they were when I first stored them.

But if you want the best way to do it --- short of modern museum conditions --- you should store each part separately.

Medicinal paraffin is mineral oil, so is Singer sewing machine oil.

There are better oils for protection than what I prefer, but gun oil has an ugly smell on keris, I use gun oil on my firearms, I use light mineral oil and aromatic oil on my keris.

If the applied gold is true kinatah it has been mechanically fixed, but a lot of current era "kinatah" is fixed with adhesive. If your keris has genuine, mechanically fixed kinatah, the oil will not harm it, if it has "kinatah" fixed with adhesive, it will loosen over time when oil is applied.

I have never observed any unwanted blade staining with any oil I have ever used.

The easiest way to keep silver looking good is to use a silver polishing cloth. I only ever use Goddards, which is made in England. I have tried other brands in the past and have found them unsatisfactory in one way or another.

The hilt will definitely require some patience & delicacy in maintenance, but that maintenance does not need to be often, I leave things go for years sometimes, I do not have the time, nor the inclination to fiddle around with literally hundreds of keris continually, and I do not have the money to pay somebody to do it for me. I do things very infrequently, but when I do work on my collection I do it properly and do it once.

The gun oil I use for my Keris is odorless. But I will look into medicinal paraffin (mineral oil) as substitute as it may be a better layer coat of protection than gun oil would.

I've found Hagerty silver polish for silver. Hopefully it's gentle enough on wood. Cleaning the warangka and hilt might just be my Spring project for this year.

Excellent advice and thank you very much as always for sharing!

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by David

Only moderators can sort that out. But i will be honest with you. We are not going to keep moving single posts around. There is a post in the Stickies for this forum that lists "Classic" posts. Rick and i will try to find the best post(s) to include there on the subject of cleaning and preserving and place a link in the "Classics" entry.

Duly noted, I will keep an eye out for the post. Thank you @David.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by David

Only moderators can sort that out. But i will be honest with you. We are not going to keep moving single posts around. There is a post in the Stickies for this forum that lists "Classic" posts. Rick and i will try to find the best post(s) to include there on the subject of cleaning and preserving and place a link in the "Classics" entry.

I believe that research in these forums can be much more fruitful if done on one's own rather than having it all collated for you by the forum staff and put in a sticky thread.
Life is busy enough for most of us.
Seek and ye shall find.
Think of all the other useful keris related knowledge that will fall your way during the research process.

[A. G. Maisey]

SJ, if I were you I would give very serious thought to using Hagerty silver polish, or any other sort of polish, powder, paste or liquid on this hilt.

Polish compounds are designed to be used on large items.

When used on small items with delicate detail it becomes extremely difficult to remove all of the applied polish, the result then becomes a residue left in tiny depressions in the work. The removal of this residue then becomes a painstaking job that you need to have a loupe screwed into your eye to complete.

Jewellers overcome this problem by using cleaning methods that you cannot use with this wooden hilt.

A polishing cloth is really the only practical answer --- well, at least in my experience.

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

SJ, if I were you I would give very serious thought to using Hagerty silver polish, or any other sort of polish, powder, paste or liquid on this hilt.

Polish compounds are designed to be used on large items.

When used on small items with delicate detail it becomes extremely difficult to remove all of the applied polish, the result then becomes a residue left in tiny depressions in the work. The removal of this residue then becomes a painstaking job that you need to have a loupe screwed into your eye to complete.

Jewellers overcome this problem by using cleaning methods that you cannot use with this wooden hilt.

A polishing cloth is really the only practical answer --- well, at least in my experience.

The residue ..I see. Though I may get away with using silver foam on silver pendok. But it does sound like polishing cloth is the ideal solution especially for hilt.

Thank you very much for the recommendation!

[David]

Originally Posted by Rick

I believe that research in these forums can be much more fruitful if done on one's own rather than having it all collated for you by the forum staff and put in a sticky thread.
Life is busy enough for most of us.
Seek and ye shall find.
Think of all the other useful keris related knowledge that will fall your way during the research process.

I am of a similar mind Rick. There is an awful lot of information in our archives. Sometimes it takes a few different approaches using different key words each time. A little work can make your discoveries even more worthwhile sometimes.

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by David

I am of a similar mind Rick. There is an awful lot of information in our archives. Sometimes it takes a few different approaches using different key words each time. A little work can make your discoveries even more worthwhile sometimes.

To be honest with you, the search function isn't what I would like it to be. But in my opinion it isn't a technical issue. Rather, it's the nature of this forum, the discussions themselves. What I'm looking for, e.g. Keris maintenance, is discussed under multiple threads with various subject lines that are seemingly unrelated to Keris maintenance. For example, the original thread may have been about Keris hilt or showcasing personal Keris but then the conversation evolves around how to clean or preserving it. I totally understand, it's how discussion works. We want to keep the flow although often times it develops into a bigger scope. That is why I think the search function is what it is and we may want to take a few different approaches using different key words. It seems like tags are few and far between.

So I totally understand where you're coming from, @David and @Rich.
As newbie, I'll take what I can get. I have nothing but high regards for this forum and its contribution to one of Indonesia's cultural heritages.

Cheers!