VOC hanger advice

cel7 · 21st November 2021, 06:41 AM

Thank you for your input. I don't completely agree because from the thread below (no. 55) by maurice, a similar "A" can be seen on a blade with provenance.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=18159&page=2

kai · 21st November 2021, 06:53 PM

Direct link to Maurice's post #55: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...1&postcount=55
An another pertinent one (#44): http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...6&postcount=44

There is substantial variability with these marks since they apparently did not got struck in any consistent manner (possibly by each chamber before entering them into service - maybe only if deemed really needed); many VOC employees did bring their own weapons though.

Museums are well-known to have fakes and other non-genuine pieces in their collections. Like with any other collections, we'd have to carefully establish any single piece being legit before relying on it. I believe VOC marks on blades is a research topic that still needs to be addressed in detail.

BTW, most ethnographic pieces did not enter collections before the late 19th c. - way too late to exclude any "rework" of wannabe VOC blades...

I can't give any definitive opinion on this piece without examining it in person (and likely not even then). Just keep in mind that collecting VOC blades is considered quite a quagmire.

Pending further research regarding the VOC mark, the importance to me would lay in the period blade with proper mounts (except for the replaced grip). Those are rare to begin with...

Regards,
Kai

David · 23rd November 2021, 04:58 PM

I have to join the skeptical crowd here on the authenticity of this mark. I suppose it is possible that the edges could have survived this well over all these years, but i must say that after taking a look at dozens of other examples this is the sharpest, deepest cut VOC mark that i have yet to see, even though this blade displays more corrosion than many of the blades i was looking at.
I am not put off by the A for Amsterdam not having the (v) as a cross line for the "A", but i do notice that the "C" of "Compagnie" looks almost identical to the "O", while on all the examples i have looked at there is a concerted effort to make the "C" look like the letter it is supposed to be. So it looks like it says VOO instead of VOC.
Even in years past i believe that people placed a certain high appraisal of VOC blades so this may not be a recent addition, but i suspect it may well have been added at a later date to increase the perceived esteem for this blade. Though i believe i can see some corrosion in the grooves of these marks i do not see the same level off corrosion i see on the surface of the blade.

cel7 · 23rd November 2021, 05:18 PM

I hadn't noticed that before, but you're right. The C is very similar to the O.
Thanks for your comment!

fernando · 23rd November 2021, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cel7

I hadn't noticed that before, but you're right. The C is very similar to the O...

As per post #6

.

cornelistromp · 25th November 2021, 05:35 PM

I don't think there's anything wrong with the inscription, not with the C that looks like an O, not even with the A without a small v.
compare the inscription of a sword in the Visser collection now in the Rijksmuseum. see pictures. (overall 752, blade 624, 31mm wide at hilt.)
The 1 the 7 the VOC and the A are identical to the ones in post1

These types of cutlass are called ship cutlasses because they belong to the ship's stock, rather than a personal weapon.

I would really adjust the grip, it looks ridiculous.

best,
Jasper

cel7 · 25th November 2021, 07:54 PM

Thanks for your comment! I also think the handle is a monster, but since this doesn't quite fit in my collection, I'm probably going to part with it. I then leave it to the new owner to embellish the handle.

21st November 2021, 06:41 AM	#1
cel7 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 157	Thank you for your input. I don't completely agree because from the thread below (no. 55) by maurice, a similar "A" can be seen on a blade with provenance. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=18159&page=2

21st November 2021, 06:53 PM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Direct link to Maurice's post #55: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...1&postcount=55 An another pertinent one (#44): http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...6&postcount=44 There is substantial variability with these marks since they apparently did not got struck in any consistent manner (possibly by each chamber before entering them into service - maybe only if deemed really needed); many VOC employees did bring their own weapons though. Museums are well-known to have fakes and other non-genuine pieces in their collections. Like with any other collections, we'd have to carefully establish any single piece being legit before relying on it. I believe VOC marks on blades is a research topic that still needs to be addressed in detail. BTW, most ethnographic pieces did not enter collections before the late 19th c. - way too late to exclude any "rework" of wannabe VOC blades... I can't give any definitive opinion on this piece without examining it in person (and likely not even then). Just keep in mind that collecting VOC blades is considered quite a quagmire. Pending further research regarding the VOC mark, the importance to me would lay in the period blade with proper mounts (except for the replaced grip). Those are rare to begin with... Regards, Kai

23rd November 2021, 04:58 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	I have to join the skeptical crowd here on the authenticity of this mark. I suppose it is possible that the edges could have survived this well over all these years, but i must say that after taking a look at dozens of other examples this is the sharpest, deepest cut VOC mark that i have yet to see, even though this blade displays more corrosion than many of the blades i was looking at. I am not put off by the A for Amsterdam not having the (v) as a cross line for the "A", but i do notice that the "C" of "Compagnie" looks almost identical to the "O", while on all the examples i have looked at there is a concerted effort to make the "C" look like the letter it is supposed to be. So it looks like it says VOO instead of VOC. Even in years past i believe that people placed a certain high appraisal of VOC blades so this may not be a recent addition, but i suspect it may well have been added at a later date to increase the perceived esteem for this blade. Though i believe i can see some corrosion in the grooves of these marks i do not see the same level off corrosion i see on the surface of the blade.

23rd November 2021, 05:18 PM	#4
cel7 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 157	I hadn't noticed that before, but you're right. The C is very similar to the O. Thanks for your comment!

25th November 2021, 05:35 PM	#6
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	I don't think there's anything wrong with the inscription, not with the C that looks like an O, not even with the A without a small v. compare the inscription of a sword in the Visser collection now in the Rijksmuseum. see pictures. (overall 752, blade 624, 31mm wide at hilt.) The 1 the 7 the VOC and the A are identical to the ones in post1 These types of cutlass are called ship cutlasses because they belong to the ship's stock, rather than a personal weapon. I would really adjust the grip, it looks ridiculous. best, Jasper Attached Images

25th November 2021, 07:54 PM	#7
cel7 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 157	Thanks for your comment! I also think the handle is a monster, but since this doesn't quite fit in my collection, I'm probably going to part with it. I then leave it to the new owner to embellish the handle.