Pawakan

A. G. Maisey · 28th October 2021, 01:47 AM

Ian, when I set out to respond to the original question, my intention was to put into simple, plain English language the central essence of my own understanding of pawakan & the elements surrounding it. I have had the benefit of learning from a man who was recognised during his lifetime as a great master of traditional Javanese beliefs. I have learnt other things from other people & other sources.

All this has helped to form my own perspective, which does vary a little from the perspectives of most of the people who gave me their knowledge & understanding.

To my mind the single most important thing that we must learn before we can even begin to have a small understanding of the keris is the World View of the people to whom it is a cultural icon:- the traditional Javanese and traditional Balinese people. In the absence of this understanding I believe it is impossible to understand much at all about the keris.

Regrettably I have found that it is really quite difficult to find people in Jawa & Bali today who have a similar World View, and similar values to those held by the people I knew in Jawa & Bali forty or fifty years ago.

I guess this is true of many places in the world today.

You, Ian are, I believe ridgydidge Oz. True Blue Australian.

How long is it since you encountered a real fair dinkum Man of the Land?

Even fairly humble cattle & sheep men send their kids to Sydney Grammar or Kings, and then sometimes on to Oxford. How many of this generation of Men of the Land would understand their grandfathers or the values of their Grandfathers?

What I tried to do with what I wrote was to present a starting point for people who cannot do what I have done.

Ian · 28th October 2021, 02:28 AM

Alan,

Yes, I am a fair dinkum Aussie! My mother's family were dairy farmers from remote NE Victoria and the Man From Snowy River is buried in her home town. As a kid in 1950, I saw one of the last bullock trains still operating. The traditional ways are long gone now, of course, and everything is mechanised and computerised. There are still "old characters" around in their nineties, but they are getting fewer every year. I have not seen a drover on a horse in the last fifty years.

So yes, the traditional methods and knowledge have disappeared with time and progress.

Ian.

A. G. Maisey · 28th October 2021, 05:17 AM

I'm up a bit south of Nowra Ian, near a little town called Tomerong, used to be a big timber town up until about 1950 or so. Saw mills all over the place.

There was still a bullock team operating here into the 1990's.

Nowra itself was a cowtown into the 1960's, but its pretty much a suburb of Sydney now. 100 miles from Sydney, a lot of the dairy farms have become Pitt Street farmers weekend get aways with pretty little horses and Galloway cows.

Bit hard to find any genuine country people here these days, most have opted for an easier life, shuffling papers or acting the part of baristers in Balmain coffee shops.

Old Oz is on the way down the tubes.

Ever tried to buy a decent axe recently?

Cheap garbage. You want a decent axe you need to order from a custom maker. In the 1990's you could still buy 5 pound and 5 1/2 pound axes in the hardware store in Nowra. Hytests. But no Plumbs or Keesteels.

No decent hardware stores left either. Bunnings killed them.

Been a lot of change in only the last 20 or so years.

jagabuwana · 26th February 2022, 11:41 AM

3) the third level is to understand the feeling of a keris. In the opinion of Empu Suparman it is a total impossibility to understand feeling until a complete understanding of level one and two have been achieved. A person who is skilled at level three can form a judgement from vibration alone, he does not need to see the keris, he only needs to hold it and he will receive a clear impression of the esoteric qualities of the keris. At this third level the physical appearance of the keris is totally irrelevant.

For this third level, is it something that is arrived at as a consequence of becoming expert at the first and second levels? Or does it necessarily require that the person already have an innate sensitivity or "claim" to this ability?

A. G. Maisey · 26th February 2022, 12:34 PM

JB, this third level is in my understanding not something for everybody, there needs to be that special quality as well as the deep formal understanding.

The formal understanding can be learnt, but that does not necessarily mean that having become competent at level one & two, a person can automatically progress to level three.

However, although somebody might have that special gift to cross from the seen to the unseen world, without the foundation of the formal understanding nobody can expect to understand the esoteric qualities of a keris that might be expressed by a transmission of feeling.

When I first encountered these ideas I thought of Luciano Pavarotti. His father understood what was needed to make a singer who rose above the ordinary, Pavarotti's father was a singer himself, but he earnt his living as a baker. Luciano had an inborn talent, his initial guidance was from his father, but it took him 20 years of training & experience to develop the voice he was born with into the instrument it became.

In the absence of early guidance and a lifetime of learning Luciano Pavarotti would have been just another good singer.

It is the same with being able to understand a keris through feeling alone:- we need the experience, knowledge & understanding that can be learnt, but then we need that special gift that permits us to move from the world that we see into the world that we feel.

As far as I was able to understand this idea, it was not exclusively the opinion of Empu Suparman, but it was an opinion that seemed to be held by every upper level ahli keris that I encountered in Solo between 1980 and about 2000.

jagabuwana · 7th March 2022, 08:34 AM

Thank you once again, Alan

jagabuwana · 19th January 2023, 09:02 AM

Hello all. Returning to this discussion as I have some more questions.
Alan - these are primarily addressed to you as they are formed after reading your posts and I would be grateful for more of your knowledge on these subjects. But I also welcome perspectives from others should they have a view on them.

I'd like to apologise in advance for what may be long-winded ways of approaching the questions.

On Pawakan (overall visual appearance)

From other discussions in this forum, I have seen pawakan used in a way to describe how a keris generally looks for the purposes of discussing classification.

For example, it seems that someone could say that a keris has the overall visual appearance of a Madura keris, despite having more specific features that might not be Madura.

But I have also seen pawakan used in such a way such as to describe a keris as awkward or not-harmonious.

I can see how the former is related to overall visual appearance, but the latter seems to me to be a description of the feelings generated due to its physical appearance i.e. wanda.

❓Is there a blurry line between pawakan and wanda, or am I misunderstanding?

On Wanda (the feeling or personality of the keris)

Worldly and experienced people who are good judges of character could use different words or characteristics to judge the same man. On the other hand they could also have polar opposite judgments depending on their experiences, biases or values.

A proud-chested well dressed man might cause a person to judge him as confident and brave, while another might judge him to hiding some kind of insecurity.

It seems much more subjective than pawakan as we are approaching internal feelings and qualities informed by, but not formed entirely by what our eyes see, which can be anchored to shared commonly shared perceptions shaped by society.

Then it seems reasonable to me that two esteemed ahli keris could easily have different feelings about the same keris and that wouldn't be controversial.

This leads me to ask what the purpose of this judgment or information is.

My initial assumption is that if wanda is part of menangguh ('doing' tangguh), then a positive wanda - e.g. bravery - would be better for the keris' prestige or value than a negative wanda - e.g. cowardly. And if the tangguh system was made by a particular class of people in Javanese society as a way of judging the real-world market value of a keris, then an esteemed ahli keris' judgment of a keris' wanda seems to be important.

❓But what if we take tangguh out of the picture?
❓Is this information useful or valuable outside of the context of "value"?

On Batin

❓Given that this has no basis in how a keris looks, from where does batin originate?

28th October 2021, 01:47 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Ian, when I set out to respond to the original question, my intention was to put into simple, plain English language the central essence of my own understanding of pawakan & the elements surrounding it. I have had the benefit of learning from a man who was recognised during his lifetime as a great master of traditional Javanese beliefs. I have learnt other things from other people & other sources. All this has helped to form my own perspective, which does vary a little from the perspectives of most of the people who gave me their knowledge & understanding. To my mind the single most important thing that we must learn before we can even begin to have a small understanding of the keris is the World View of the people to whom it is a cultural icon:- the traditional Javanese and traditional Balinese people. In the absence of this understanding I believe it is impossible to understand much at all about the keris. Regrettably I have found that it is really quite difficult to find people in Jawa & Bali today who have a similar World View, and similar values to those held by the people I knew in Jawa & Bali forty or fifty years ago. I guess this is true of many places in the world today. You, Ian are, I believe ridgydidge Oz. True Blue Australian. How long is it since you encountered a real fair dinkum Man of the Land? Even fairly humble cattle & sheep men send their kids to Sydney Grammar or Kings, and then sometimes on to Oxford. How many of this generation of Men of the Land would understand their grandfathers or the values of their Grandfathers? What I tried to do with what I wrote was to present a starting point for people who cannot do what I have done.

28th October 2021, 02:28 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,518	Alan, Yes, I am a fair dinkum Aussie! My mother's family were dairy farmers from remote NE Victoria and the Man From Snowy River is buried in her home town. As a kid in 1950, I saw one of the last bullock trains still operating. The traditional ways are long gone now, of course, and everything is mechanised and computerised. There are still "old characters" around in their nineties, but they are getting fewer every year. I have not seen a drover on a horse in the last fifty years. So yes, the traditional methods and knowledge have disappeared with time and progress. Ian.

28th October 2021, 05:17 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	I'm up a bit south of Nowra Ian, near a little town called Tomerong, used to be a big timber town up until about 1950 or so. Saw mills all over the place. There was still a bullock team operating here into the 1990's. Nowra itself was a cowtown into the 1960's, but its pretty much a suburb of Sydney now. 100 miles from Sydney, a lot of the dairy farms have become Pitt Street farmers weekend get aways with pretty little horses and Galloway cows. Bit hard to find any genuine country people here these days, most have opted for an easier life, shuffling papers or acting the part of baristers in Balmain coffee shops. Old Oz is on the way down the tubes. Ever tried to buy a decent axe recently? Cheap garbage. You want a decent axe you need to order from a custom maker. In the 1990's you could still buy 5 pound and 5 1/2 pound axes in the hardware store in Nowra. Hytests. But no Plumbs or Keesteels. No decent hardware stores left either. Bunnings killed them. Been a lot of change in only the last 20 or so years.

26th February 2022, 11:41 AM	#4
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 292	3) the third level is to understand the feeling of a keris. In the opinion of Empu Suparman it is a total impossibility to understand feeling until a complete understanding of level one and two have been achieved. A person who is skilled at level three can form a judgement from vibration alone, he does not need to see the keris, he only needs to hold it and he will receive a clear impression of the esoteric qualities of the keris. At this third level the physical appearance of the keris is totally irrelevant. For this third level, is it something that is arrived at as a consequence of becoming expert at the first and second levels? Or does it necessarily require that the person already have an innate sensitivity or "claim" to this ability?

26th February 2022, 12:34 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	JB, this third level is in my understanding not something for everybody, there needs to be that special quality as well as the deep formal understanding. The formal understanding can be learnt, but that does not necessarily mean that having become competent at level one & two, a person can automatically progress to level three. However, although somebody might have that special gift to cross from the seen to the unseen world, without the foundation of the formal understanding nobody can expect to understand the esoteric qualities of a keris that might be expressed by a transmission of feeling. When I first encountered these ideas I thought of Luciano Pavarotti. His father understood what was needed to make a singer who rose above the ordinary, Pavarotti's father was a singer himself, but he earnt his living as a baker. Luciano had an inborn talent, his initial guidance was from his father, but it took him 20 years of training & experience to develop the voice he was born with into the instrument it became. In the absence of early guidance and a lifetime of learning Luciano Pavarotti would have been just another good singer. It is the same with being able to understand a keris through feeling alone:- we need the experience, knowledge & understanding that can be learnt, but then we need that special gift that permits us to move from the world that we see into the world that we feel. As far as I was able to understand this idea, it was not exclusively the opinion of Empu Suparman, but it was an opinion that seemed to be held by every upper level ahli keris that I encountered in Solo between 1980 and about 2000.

7th March 2022, 08:34 AM	#6
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 292	Thank you once again, Alan

19th January 2023, 09:02 AM	#7
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 292	Hello all. Returning to this discussion as I have some more questions. Alan - these are primarily addressed to you as they are formed after reading your posts and I would be grateful for more of your knowledge on these subjects. But I also welcome perspectives from others should they have a view on them. I'd like to apologise in advance for what may be long-winded ways of approaching the questions. On Pawakan (overall visual appearance) From other discussions in this forum, I have seen pawakan used in a way to describe how a keris generally looks for the purposes of discussing classification. For example, it seems that someone could say that a keris has the overall visual appearance of a Madura keris, despite having more specific features that might not be Madura. But I have also seen pawakan used in such a way such as to describe a keris as awkward or not-harmonious. I can see how the former is related to overall visual appearance, but the latter seems to me to be a description of the feelings generated due to its physical appearance i.e. wanda. ❓Is there a blurry line between pawakan and wanda, or am I misunderstanding? On Wanda (the feeling or personality of the keris) Worldly and experienced people who are good judges of character could use different words or characteristics to judge the same man. On the other hand they could also have polar opposite judgments depending on their experiences, biases or values. A proud-chested well dressed man might cause a person to judge him as confident and brave, while another might judge him to hiding some kind of insecurity. It seems much more subjective than pawakan as we are approaching internal feelings and qualities informed by, but not formed entirely by what our eyes see, which can be anchored to shared commonly shared perceptions shaped by society. Then it seems reasonable to me that two esteemed ahli keris could easily have different feelings about the same keris and that wouldn't be controversial. This leads me to ask what the purpose of this judgment or information is. My initial assumption is that if wanda is part of menangguh ('doing' tangguh), then a positive wanda - e.g. bravery - would be better for the keris' prestige or value than a negative wanda - e.g. cowardly. And if the tangguh system was made by a particular class of people in Javanese society as a way of judging the real-world market value of a keris, then an esteemed ahli keris' judgment of a keris' wanda seems to be important. ❓But what if we take tangguh out of the picture? ❓Is this information useful or valuable outside of the context of "value"? On Batin ❓Given that this has no basis in how a keris looks, from where does batin originate?