A peculiar 1796 Pattern 'Spadroon'

[Radboud]

Hi Jim,

Thank you for your comments. I still think this is more of a backsword blade of the profile of the basket hilt swords from the time, especially with the double fullers. Most 1796 HC undress swords I’ve seen have the single broad fuller and follow the shape and style of the trooper version.

But like you say the scabbard is of the heavy cavalry style.

Truely a puzzle, but then this era did create some unique designs. I recently passed on a flank officers (grenadier) sabre with a boatshell guard combined with a P-shaped knuckle bow and a 1796 light cavalry like blade marked to J J Runkel.

As it will be coming up for auction soon I can’t post photos alas.

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,
This sword is a cracker. I would love to have it in my collection. I would say it is definitely an heirloom blade from the 17th or maybe early 18th century. It could be a 1796 heavy cavalry officer's dress sword, or maybe something like a general officer's sword. I have seen a few of these types of swords. Similar type of blade to this 1788 HCO sword with heirloom blade of mine.
Cheers,
Bryce

[Radboud]

Thanks for the feedback Bryce, that 1788 of yours is an amazing sword as well!

[Jim McDougall]

Guys, these are all totally amazing swords! and Bryce and Will I was glad to see you guys come in as you are pretty much specialized in this field of British regulation swords.

I see what you mean Bryce, on the heirloom blade thing, and the fullering is remarkably similar except for the extra 'flute' at ricasso. What puzzles me, beyond the pristine appearance of the blade, is that the width and length seem to correspond to the 1796 heavy cavalry blade size......enough to 'appear' to fit this regulation pattern neatly.

The heirloom blades, which would have dated pre 1746, seem a bit more slender as backswords if I am not mistaken.

The M1788 is outstanding Bryce! I had one of these many years ago, but the pommel had been replaced with a spherical one that seemed from a much earlier rapier, the blade was huge, 40" long! Wish I still had it.

[Bryce]

G'day Jim,
I agree this isn't the sort of blade you would expect to find on a mortuary hilt like mine, but it is exactly the sort of blade you would find on an early 18th Century basket-hilt. The scabbard would have been custom made for this blade when it was mounted on the boat-shell hilt. They weren't making blades like this in the 1780's/90's. Regarding the condition of the blade. There are plenty of examples of much older blades in pristine condition. As long as a blade is looked after, it can stay in pristine condition for centuries. You wouldn't remount an older blade if it was already in poor condition.
Cheers,
Bryce

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Bryce

G'day Jim,
I agree this isn't the sort of blade you would expect to find on a mortuary hilt like mine, but it is exactly the sort of blade you would find on an early 18th Century basket-hilt. The scabbard would have been custom made for this blade when it was mounted on the boat-shell hilt. They weren't making blades like this in the 1780's/90's. Regarding the condition of the blade. There are plenty of examples of much older blades in pristine condition. As long as a blade is looked after, it can stay in pristine condition for centuries. You wouldn't remount an older blade if it was already in poor condition.
Cheers,
Bryce

I agree Bryce, the blades being made in the 1790s were either hollow ground wide fuller, or the Montmorency type fullered blades typically used by Wooley. It does seem the fullering here may be of the type seen on the British examples of 1750s in the units using basket hilts still.

If this was a heirloom blade, and the officer had it custom mounted to wear at dress occasions, why would they custom make a scabbard of field service form rather than the leather and brass types made for dress wear.?

Good point on remounting a blade in poor condition, whether heirloom or not.

[Radboud]

Quick question for Jim and Bryce, does 'heirloom blade' have a specific meaning for you that I may have missed?

I was thinking in terms of 'this is the sword my father passed on to me from his service' rather than 'this is the sword my ancestors carried at battle X' the latter implying more age to the blade.

On another forum, Richard Dellar posted a photo showing two 1796 Heavy Cavalry swords from the same officer in the Scotts Greys (Undress and dress) that have Andrea Ferara blades on them. But as you point out Jim, the 1796 for Dismounted service has a leather scabbard. I suspect there is still a lot that is not known around the reasons some have steel scabbards while others have leather.

Cheers
Bas