Austro-Hungarian cavalry sword M1869

[Jim McDougall]

[QUOTE=Victrix;266599]Hi Jim,

Many thanks for your comments. This is the officers’ version of the M1869 and a private purchase. The cavalry trooper’s sabre has a 3.6cm wide blade and a simpler guard perforated with holes (made it lighter). What’s common for both versions are the elegant double slits for the wrist cord with tassel. The officer version has a more elaborate decorated guard, sometimes with an added optional St.George or the Habsburg eagle as in this case. The dimensions of the officers’ sabres vary based on the preferences of the owners, and whether they were intended for dress wear or field service. This sabre for dress wear was manufactured by Ludwig Zeitler Wien VIII, who also made daggers and bayonets (est. in 1840?).










Hi Victrix,

I'm glad I could offer these references. I have always thought these Austro-Hungarian swords were pretty intriguing, and always liked the troopers versions for their very 'business like' look. It seems strange in a way that cavalry and swords were used well into the 20th century.....and cavalry was still an integral battle order component despite machine guns etc.

The stories of Polish cavalry charging German tanks in WWII was of course German propaganda, but these forces were vital in many functions. I knew a man whose father was in the Polish cavalry then, and he always spoke of his fathers saber, which to him as a child, was huge.

I am not sure about those slits, and I always thought they were for sword knots.

[kronckew]

Oops! Forget to add this picture of an Austrian officer's sword with it's knot.
p.s.- The Poles used cavalry but left their lances home for parades. Not being fools, they usually parked their horses and fought on foot with machine guns and rifles. They did do a sabre charge on a German encampment and were very effective, coming out the other side they heard armoured vehicles approaching and wisely left.
The Germans widely used horse for transport of personnel and supplies, wounded, etc.. They were forbidden to film them in action tho, as hitler wanted everyone on the allies side to think they were all fully mechanized. They actually used almost twice the number of horses they'd used in WW1. especially when they started running out of gasoline and diesel. The Italian Cavalry also made a number of successful cavalry charges against the Russians.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Victrix,

I'm glad I could offer these references. I have always thought these Austro-Hungarian swords were pretty intriguing, and always liked the troopers versions for their very 'business like' look. It seems strange in a way that cavalry and swords were used well into the 20th century.....and cavalry was still an integral battle order component despite machine guns etc.

The stories of Polish cavalry charging German tanks in WWII was of course German propaganda, but these forces were vital in many functions. I knew a man whose father was in the Polish cavalry then, and he always spoke of his fathers saber, which to him as a child, was huge.

I am not sure about those slits, and I always thought they were for sword knots.

Jim, I share your sentiment completely, and like the wider and more businesslike blades. But in this particular case I fell for the eagle decoration on the guard. I believe Austro-Hungarian cavalry units were used more on the Eastern front in WWI against Russia. The casualty rates were substantial so efforts were made to make uniforms and horses less conspicuous, so to provide less clear targets. Kaiser Franz Joseph was said to dislike tanks because they frightened the cavalry horses!

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Victrix

Jim, I share your sentiment completely, and like the wider and more businesslike blades. But in this particular case I fell for the eagle decoration on the guard. I believe Austro-Hungarian cavalry units were used more on the Eastern front in WWI against Russia. The casualty rates were substantial so efforts were made to make uniforms and horses less conspicuous, so to provide less clear targets. Kaiser Franz Joseph was said to dislike tanks because they frightened the cavalry horses!

These are outstanding swords, and it seems few of the general public realize just how far into the 20th century the use of the sword and cavalry continued. While our line of demarcation for the study of weapons here is set at 1900, many of these 19th century patterns as well as actual examples carried , as we see, even up to WWII.

I once had the opportunity to interview a British Brigadier who had led one of the last mounted cavalry charges in Khyber regions in 1931. I was able to handle the M1912 officers sword he carried, and he showed me numerous weapons he captured. The unit was Bengal Lancers so the lance was of course used also.

The lances used by German uhlans in WWI were steel and 12ft. long. In considering the terrain in most of the battle areas, it is easy to understand that horses were most effective in most cases.

[kronckew]

The last US horse mounted charge into a full scale battle with modern weaponry against opponents with tanks was not very long ago indeed. October 2001 saw an Afghan mounted force charge a much larger Taliban force dug in and armed with tanks and artillery, accompanied by 6 US Army Special forces. The Afghani losses were heavy but they completely demoralized the Taliban who surrendered in droves. A few US B-52's 'helped' by providing close air support, only missing the Taliban by a few miles.

I doubt there will ever be a 'last' charge.


p.s.- not more than a few days ago, a US Armed and mounted unit charged a group of people invading the USA and captured many as they fled from the horses.

[Victrix]

Advance Merry Christmas to you all!

P.S. The strap fits through the slits perfectly so there is no doubt about the function of those.

[Victrix]

Now complete with new homemade washer made from red felt material. The sword already has a washer made from brown leather. Not sure if the leather washer is original/very old.