Awesome Jacobite period basket hilt broadsword

[M ELEY]

Wow! That is shocking and very interesting information! I'm a transplant to NC and have lived here for about 30 years. Likewise, I live mid-state, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn of such 'field trips' up in the mountians. The Tories were indeed hated and were responsible (along with some colonists supporting the new regime, of course) for some graphic war crimes. Many say the first real Civil War was fought here in the southern colonies back during the Revolution. I'll have to do some research on that info you gave. Thanks!

[Jim McDougall]

That the basket hilt had a long presence in the American colonies has no doubt. Scots and Irish, hence Scotch-Irish, had been coming to America, and in the Carolinas for some time, and were in place in early 18th c.

On the death of the pirate Blackbeard, from "Under the Black Flag", David Cordingly, 1996, p.198):

"....one of Maynard's men being a Highlander, engaged Teach with his broadsword, who gave Teach a cut on the neck, Teach saying 'well done lad'; the Highlander replied , 'if not be well done, then I'll do it better', with that he gave him a second stroke, which cut off his head laying it flat on his shoulder".

-from the "Boston News Letter", Feb.23 to Mar.2, 1719.

The event was at Ocracoke, N.C. November 22, 1718.

The Highlander was probably of a local militia with men recruited by Lt. Maynard to man his sloops (two) to pursue Blackbeard in the inlets in this area. Maynard's sword was broken, and the Highlander struck Blackbeard from behind.

Given that the basket hilt Mark has posted here is from the 1680-1700 period, we may assume the Highlander had a sword quite similar.

[Battara]

Jim I had no idea that 19c blades were re-hilted with the older hilts!

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Battara

Jim I had no idea that 19c blades were re-hilted with the older hilts!

What I meant was that in the 19th century with all the fervor over all things Scottish many old hilts were remounted with old blades, mostly German of course, which were still circulating around. I did not mean 19th century blades, however there were still broadsword blades available from Solingen. I have seen Scottish hilts sporting kaskara blades of the form often sent to Sudan.

It is often surprising to see how often older hilts were joined with newer blades, as seen in Wallace Collection (Mann, 1962).

[M ELEY]

Originally Posted by Battara

Jim I had no idea that 19c blades were re-hilted with the older hilts!

Hello Battara! I know this practice was done on occasion, but whether out of respect or just to re-market an old basket, I can't say! I used to own such a piece. The basket was the m1828 and solidly dated to the Crimean period. She had a good patina and subtle nuances of a mid-19th c. basket. She had been refitted with a Wilkinson dress blade with King George V stamp ca. 1910 along with a nice scabbard. I sold it only because it was a true dress piece and not a fighter.

[Interested Party]

Jim fascinating. My source material reading list continues to grow and diversify at a rate I can't keep up with.

M Eley this is an amazing piece that has sparked a great discussion.

I have never seen one of these swords, a basket, or even one of the famous crosscut saws remade into a short sword that was a family heirloom from this period. What is more I never even heard the rumor of their existence as such during my childhood in western NC. I believe I would have seen one proudly displayed by someone in my grandfather's gun shop if they were at all common. Every type of antiquarian oddity came through there at one time or another. I can only guess that they were either literally beat into plow shards eventually or confiscated by the northern or southern troops 100 years later. The idea of a sword was so foreign that my mother danced over crossed sticks while her grandmother beat time without anyone realizing it was a supposed to be a sword dance. I guess after 250 years it is surprising that even that much old world culture remained.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Jim fascinating. My source material reading list continues to grow and diversify at a rate I can't keep up with.

M Eley this is an amazing piece that has sparked a great discussion.

I have never seen one of these swords, a basket, or even one of the famous crosscut saws remade into a short sword that was a family heirloom from this period. What is more I never even heard the rumor of their existence as such during my childhood in western NC. I believe I would have seen one proudly displayed by someone in my grandfather's gun shop if they were at all common. Every type of antiquarian oddity came through there at one time or another. I can only guess that they were either literally beat into plow shards eventually or confiscated by the northern or southern troops 100 years later. The idea of a sword was so foreign that my mother danced over crossed sticks while her grandmother beat time without anyone realizing it was a supposed to be a sword dance. I guess after 250 years it is surprising that even that much old world culture remained.

The presence of 'foreign' swords in the colonies, and in America through the Revolution, and Civil War is well established, as seen in the amazingly comprehensive "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution", George Neumann, 1972. The volumes of these swords had already existed in the colonies profusely after the more than a century of colonization and immigration.

I dont believe that Union forces would have had an interest in old swords, but the Confederacy was calling for old swords of any kind, and were importing swords mostly from England.

Old world traditions are still very much in place, and that is a most charming story of your mother dancing over the crossed sticks. I once had the great honor of seeing this sword dance performed by the 42nd Highlanders ("Black Watch") . It was just at the time of the bombing of the Marine Barracks in Lebanon in 1983, and it was the most stirring thing I have seen.

Another great book you might add
"How the Scots Invented the Modern World", Arthur Herman, 2001.

[M ELEY]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Jim fascinating. My source material reading list continues to grow and diversify at a rate I can't keep up with.

M Eley this is an amazing piece that has sparked a great discussion.

I have never seen one of these swords, a basket, or even one of the famous crosscut saws remade into a short sword that was a family heirloom from this period. What is more I never even heard the rumor of their existence as such during my childhood in western NC. I believe I would have seen one proudly displayed by someone in my grandfather's gun shop if they were at all common. Every type of antiquarian oddity came through there at one time or another. I can only guess that they were either literally beat into plow shards eventually or confiscated by the northern or southern troops 100 years later. The idea of a sword was so foreign that my mother danced over crossed sticks while her grandmother beat time without anyone realizing it was a supposed to be a sword dance. I guess after 250 years it is surprising that even that much old world culture remained.

That is pretty cool that some of the old ways made it 'over the pond' to the New World. Just as so much of the 'mountain traditions' were from the Old Country, such things transitioned over here. Bluegrass music and instruments, customs, food, even sayings were brought with the travelers. One of my favorites is the classic 'Southern' saying "Y'all", usually drawn out to "Y'alllllll"! In the South, we say proudly "It's a Southern thing!" Um, no, it's not. It is a Scottish thing!!!!

In the Old World language, it was 'Ye All', with 'Ye' meaning 'All of you' (versus 'Thou', which was singular for an individual. Thus, if being a rude old Scot, you might say "Thou is an idiot!! "Ye kin are probably idiots, too!" differentiating singular person versus group of people.

In what part of western NC did you live? My folks moved to Hendersonville near Asheville. In the county courthouse there, they have a small museum. In their collection, they had an amazing full basket hilt broadsword ca. 1730 of fine quality. It was on loan from a local family who had lived in NC since the mid-18th c. The last time I went, it was no longer on display. Too bad.

[M ELEY]

[QUOTE=Jim McDougall;266171]That the basket hilt had a long presence in the American colonies has no doubt. Scots and Irish, hence Scotch-Irish, had been coming to America, and in the Carolinas for some time, and were in place in early 18th c.

On the death of the pirate Blackbeard, from "Under the Black Flag", David Cordingly, 1996, p.198):

"....one of Maynard's men being a Highlander, engaged Teach with his broadsword, who gave Teach a cut on the neck, Teach saying 'well done lad'; the Highlander replied , 'if not be well done, then I'll do it better', with that he gave him a second stroke, which cut off his head laying it flat on his shoulder".

-from the "Boston News Letter", Feb.23 to Mar.2, 1719.

The event was at Ocracoke, N.C. November 22, 1718.

Jim, anytime you bring up either Blackbeard, piracy or Scottish baskets, you command my attention! I was always fascinated by the story of the Highlander who killed the nefarious pirate. Most texts annoyingly just say Lt. Maynard killed him, which was not the case. The Scot who struck down the villain from Bristol is usually un-credited, as is the story of him striking the pirate twice. This is the kind of stuff that keeps me collecting. Knowing all of the history these pieces represent and all of the (potential) places they may have traveled to in their paths through history!

Thanks to all for commenting on the basket! Maybe I'll strap this soldier to my side, put on my kilt and attend the next Highland Games here in NC!

[fernando]

[QUOTE=M ELEY;266190]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... Maybe I'll strap this soldier to my side, put on my kilt and attend the next Highland Games here in NC!

Post us a picture later on Captain .

[M ELEY]

Thanks, 'Nando. I'll do so!

[Jim McDougall]

I wanted to add some notes on these basket hilts for perspective. The first is my own basket hilt, which was found in an estate sale in Maryland some years ago. This is of course the Glasgow style hilt (just as Mark's) and basically of same period, however the extended wrist guard has been added (probably in early years of 18th c).
The blade is of course Solingen, with the spurious 'SEBASTIAN' (Hernandez) with the 'anchor' mark. The other 'sextant' type mark is of Wirsberg, c.1650s. It has often been thought that this mark might be a sextant (found on some hanger blades, but seems the arc was wider), but bugle seems more likely.



This just added to nod toward the fact that basket hilts were indeed used at sea and this instance likely increased in the early 18th c.
In 1707, the acts which combined England and Scotland were matter of great issue of course, and the flow of emigration to the American colonies greatly increased from Scotland. Primarily this is because Scottish shipping now became powerfully more abundant, and Scottish emigrants had more opportunity for transport.

According to academic studies, there were three 'waves' of emigration, first mostly lowland; then Highland; then Ulster, 1700-1775. This is of course highly generalized, and the first Highlanders said to have arrived at Cape Fear, N.C. in 1729 (according to records of course).

The Highlanders were of course present earlier, as the news report earlier mentioned with the death of Blackbeard in 1718 attributes his end to a Highlander. We know that the men who had joined Maynard on his 2 sloops to track down Blackbeard were locals in Carolina, so a Highland member seems logical. These were not sea going crews, but local men, possibly from a militia type group.

Returning to the evolution of the Glasgow style hilt, it has been said that John Simpson may have begun this form (he began in 1683) which seems to be changing the center shields from round to rectangular, and using saltire bars instead of 'ribbons'.

The ribbon hilt (next photo) has typically been regarded as latter 17th c. however we now know they were a type earlier, c. 1650s.
This just added to illustrate the evolution of these basket hilts we now know as 'Glasgow' hilts. The more elaborate 'Stirling' hilts followed in the early 18th c. with often more artistic 'story board' type themes and decoration wrought with symbolism. While the Glasgow hilts were more rudimentary, their pierced decoration often carried far more nuanced and stylized symbolism.

Later, the Glasgow form was copied in basic for the 'garrison' (military) type hilts produced mostly by Jeffries and Drury in London, and mounted on various blades, typically German but by their time (c. 1750s) some Birmingham made., Next picture of one of these hilts.

[M ELEY]

Thank you Jim for this great information (again!). I would love to see a pic of Rob Roy's (reported) sword if anyone can find a pic. I know he was a hero in his own time, so the survival of his blade seems very plausible. Thank you alsl for the info on those Scots which came to the Americas, particularly those in my neck of the woods (there are many landmarks, counties, regions named after the Highlands and Scottish surnames as well. Your two Scottish broadswords, BTW, are amazing in themselves! They present a great evolution from mid-17th until mid-18th and beyond.