Composite Smallsword

Radboud · 6th September 2021, 10:35 PM

Thank you Jasper,

That is excellent additional information. I was in two minds that the grip might be a mid 19th Century re-build but the extra thin wire made me hopeful that it was more 'period' (end of 18th Century).

Cheers
Bas

cornelistromp · 7th September 2021, 07:52 AM

hi Bas,

yes I think the copper wire of the grip is not (partly or completely) the original 1770 wire, you would expect a silver-bound grip here.

The wood under it (probably is) and the silver? grip rings seem original to me.

best,
Jasper

mariusgmioc · 8th September 2021, 01:48 PM

The hilt of your sword appears to be an exact copy of mine (by William Kinman of London, in 1772):

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27044

Radboud · 9th September 2021, 12:05 AM

That is a stunning sword you have Marius, all the more impressive for having come from a premier English silversmith/maker.

It has been suggested that the guard on mine is a cast copy of a higher grade smallsword such as yours.

mariusgmioc · 9th September 2021, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radboud

That is a stunning sword you have Marius, all the more impressive for having come from a premier English silversmith/maker.

It has been suggested that the guard on mine is a cast copy of a higher grade smallsword such as yours.

Hello Radboud,

I believe it is quite obvious it is a cast copy.

Could you identify the metal of the hilt? My bet will go for a tin alloy.

Hotspur · 9th September 2021, 08:34 PM

Vicker's White Metal/Britannia was coming in during this period but generally not cast in such detail. It was not hallmarked at first.

There was somewhat similarly a period in France 1789-1797 when marking plate was not regulated.

There are some simple tests like ice melting and bleach but a touchstone and acids are how a jeweler would start to grade silver. I had a rose gold chain I was selling I took a shop and the final definitive was still going below the surface.

I have a sword dish that shows casting and has gold filling (fused/fired) and an eagle pommel that is similarly fired gilt and both I suspect are Brittania.

Cheers
GC

Radboud · 9th September 2021, 11:52 PM

Thanks for the additional information. I don't think it's silver or at least a low content if there is any.

Some form of tin alloy is a good suggestion and another good candidate.

8th September 2021, 01:48 PM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	The hilt of your sword appears to be an exact copy of mine (by William Kinman of London, in 1772): http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27044 Attached Images

6th September 2021, 10:35 PM	#1
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 276	Thank you Jasper, That is excellent additional information. I was in two minds that the grip might be a mid 19th Century re-build but the extra thin wire made me hopeful that it was more 'period' (end of 18th Century). Cheers Bas

7th September 2021, 07:52 AM	#2
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	hi Bas, yes I think the copper wire of the grip is not (partly or completely) the original 1770 wire, you would expect a silver-bound grip here. The wood under it (probably is) and the silver? grip rings seem original to me. best, Jasper

9th September 2021, 12:05 AM	#4
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 276	That is a stunning sword you have Marius, all the more impressive for having come from a premier English silversmith/maker. It has been suggested that the guard on mine is a cast copy of a higher grade smallsword such as yours.

9th September 2021, 08:34 PM	#6
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 508	Vicker's White Metal/Britannia was coming in during this period but generally not cast in such detail. It was not hallmarked at first. There was somewhat similarly a period in France 1789-1797 when marking plate was not regulated. There are some simple tests like ice melting and bleach but a touchstone and acids are how a jeweler would start to grade silver. I had a rose gold chain I was selling I took a shop and the final definitive was still going below the surface. I have a sword dish that shows casting and has gold filling (fused/fired) and an eagle pommel that is similarly fired gilt and both I suspect are Brittania. Cheers GC

9th September 2021, 11:52 PM	#7
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 276	Thanks for the additional information. I don't think it's silver or at least a low content if there is any. Some form of tin alloy is a good suggestion and another good candidate.