Small handgonne

cel7 · 30th June 2021, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

Sorry to burst the bubble but its an Indian tillered hand cannon. I owned this very piece just a few years ago when i sold it to a Dutch Gentlement.

Thank you Marcus! So not European after all. What period do you think it's from?

Philip · 30th June 2021, 06:34 PM

Thanks, Marcus. Even if it is Indian and not European, it could still be significant. A chronological benchmark would be useful. Surviving examples of handgonnes from the Subcontinent are quite an unusual thing, far fewer of them seem to be extant than thei counterparts in the West. And the literature on Indian arms is largely silent on these. So it may represent a step forward in our understanding of the development of firearms in India. Lots of questions to sift through, given the fact that so few Indian guns predating the 18th-19th cent. are in collections.

Raf · 1st July 2021, 06:27 PM

Looks like it started life as an Indian combined matchlock and axe. The Royal armouries example dates it vaguely 1700 to 1800. Worth looking to see if their is any sign the remains of a rivit to the tiller that could have supported the serpentine.

cel7 · 1st July 2021, 10:55 PM

Thank you for your comment Raf. There is now sign of a rivet to the tiller. The tiller doesn't look strong enough to support an ax either.

Raf · 2nd July 2021, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cel7

Thank you for your comment Raf. There is now sign of a rivet to the tiller. The tiller doesn't look strong enough to support an ax either.

I agree. Maybe you could post a picture of the end of the tiller.

Marcus den toom · 2nd July 2021, 09:01 PM

Attached from my archive

Raf · 3rd July 2021, 01:05 PM

Thanks Marcus. Certainly looks like a tiller to me. One option might be it was designed to be fired from a rowlock fixed to the bow of a camel saddle in which case the tiller makes sense. There is a discussion of camel mounted guns in a thread started by Ibrahim Al Balooshi June 10 2016.

1st July 2021, 06:27 PM	#3
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	Looks like it started life as an Indian combined matchlock and axe. The Royal armouries example dates it vaguely 1700 to 1800. Worth looking to see if their is any sign the remains of a rivit to the tiller that could have supported the serpentine. Attached Images

2nd July 2021, 09:01 PM	#6
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 534	Attached from my archive Attached Images

30th June 2021, 06:34 PM	#2
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Thanks, Marcus. Even if it is Indian and not European, it could still be significant. A chronological benchmark would be useful. Surviving examples of handgonnes from the Subcontinent are quite an unusual thing, far fewer of them seem to be extant than thei counterparts in the West. And the literature on Indian arms is largely silent on these. So it may represent a step forward in our understanding of the development of firearms in India. Lots of questions to sift through, given the fact that so few Indian guns predating the 18th-19th cent. are in collections.

1st July 2021, 10:55 PM	#4
cel7 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 157	Thank you for your comment Raf. There is now sign of a rivet to the tiller. The tiller doesn't look strong enough to support an ax either.

3rd July 2021, 01:05 PM	#7
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	Thanks Marcus. Certainly looks like a tiller to me. One option might be it was designed to be fired from a rowlock fixed to the bow of a camel saddle in which case the tiller makes sense. There is a discussion of camel mounted guns in a thread started by Ibrahim Al Balooshi June 10 2016.