Philippine Sword?

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Ian

I agree that the treatment of the eyes suggests Hindu art, however a half beard and mustache is uncommon among Hindus
.

If you google "Indian god with beard", it is the response that you will get.
You have Indian god with beard and look also at the avatars.
I vote for Narasimha (seems to be a badass)

Originally Posted by Ian

Recent Census Data from Indonesia indicate that Hindus make up about 1.74% of the total population.
.

Do you have the statistics for the late 19th c.?

I agree that the guard and the scabbard tip look European ( English or Dutch)

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you very much again guys, I really appreciate all these insights and suggestions. Again, I am far out of my element here, but am learning a great deal and while continuing my own research somewhat, I had a suggestion given to me privately.

That is this may have to do with possibly with Kala Bhairava, the destructive form of Shiva in Hindu deities. In parts of Java, there are followers of the Hindu Faith with elements of Buddhism as well, where Shiva is worshipped also,=.

Here I would recognize that this weapon has distinct European features, the shape of the hilt, the alternating quillon terminals and the chape surround on the scabbard. These are of the character of many European hangers of 17th into 18th c.

The idea of the face being European as well is intriguing of course with these considered, but the only faces I can think of is the 17th c, 'mortuary' hilt sword, but I am inclined to think of Dutch influence more in Java.

These are just thoughts as I continue to research and wonder what you guys think.

[ariel]

I a wondering whether the S-shaped crossguard is a later ( 19th century?) imitatation.

[Ian]

I'm going to throw another suggestion out of left field. The curious radial pattern around the neck of the face on the pommel and scabbard reminds me of a ruff collar, as seen in both European men's and women's dress up until about the mid-18th C. Ruffed collars are still being made today, although clearly out of popular fashion for more than a century. This would add to the possibility that the face is European. Ruffed collars were used by the Dutch, British, etc. and towards the end of their use they were largely worn by aristocrats, royalty, etc.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Ian

I'm going to throw another suggestion out of left field. The curious radial pattern around the neck of the face on the pommel and scabbard reminds me of a ruff collar, as seen in both European men's and women's dress up until about the mid-18th C. Ruffed collars are still being made today, although clearly out of popular fashion for more than a century. This would add to the possibility that the face is European. Ruffed collars were used by the Dutch, British, etc. and towards the end of their use they were largely worn by aristocrats, royalty, etc.

I have been remiss in not responding sooner Ian, my apologies. Actually I have had information from a most reliable source that this in his opinion was indeed likely made for a European.
Also I was assured that the face and motif have nothing to do with any deity or symbolism in these regions or religious context.
Here I would like to thank David for the great insights into the complexities and peculiarities of these weapons!!! I have enjoyed learning more on these as well as a better understanding of my example.
I very much appreciate not just observations, but explanations, and this information is remarkable.

Thank you again guys!!!!

[Rick]

Many Maduran kerises and other arms show heavy Dutch influence. Madura was where the Dutch recruited many mercenaries to fight for them in Jawa and Bali.
I see Maduran influence in the chape of the scabbard with the inclusion of the drag element there. Very European. Maduran work is often zoomorphic and figural. The wrongkos of these two kerises depict an Eagle and the winged horse of Sumenep.
Maduran Smiths are quite capable of forging blades like this.
I vote for Madura as origin of this Lurus.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I have had information from a most reliable source that this in his opinion was indeed likely made for a European.
Also I was assured that the face and motif have nothing to do with any deity or symbolism in these regions or religious context.

Hi Jim,

Please could you share with us your infos? on which bases or criteria your contact can say that?

I think David's info is very interesting
Indonesian is indeed mostly Muslim. However Bali has an 86% Hindu population. About 15% of the population of Lombok also identifies as Hindu.

[A. G. Maisey]

I checked out this thread pretty much as soon as it began, which was a bit of a fluke, because Philippine stuff does not interest me in the slightest, I was bored and chained to the computer anyway, so I had a look.

When I looked I saw not something from the Philppines, but a Javanese pedang lurus or pedang tusuk that I sold to somebody years ago.

I saw it had been correctly identified by a couple of people, I did not think it was really necessary for me to add anything, so closed the thread and did not look at it again. This morning I'm chained to my komputator again, and I noticed that this pedang thread had somehow managed to generate lots & lots of discussion.

Remarkable! This is a very ordinary little pedang lurus or pedang tusuk. "Lurus" simply means "straight", "tusuk" means "stab".

In other words a straight sword or a stabbing sword. Take your pick.

It was made in Jawa. The blade is probably older than the dress.

The dress is European influenced, it might have been made for a guard working in a princely residence, or a Dutch company office, or a grand house, either rural or urban --- or for any other non-cultural reason we may care to imagine.

In this dress it has absolutely nothing to do with Javanese cultural beliefs involving protective deities or beliefs.

Why does the pommel have a human face?

I don't know, but I do know that it would not be there if this dress was put on the blade of a person of Islamic beliefs. Maybe it represented the owner of the sugar factory where the original owner of this pedang stood guard at the entry gate.

It is very easy to get caught up in impossible beliefs when one does not have a very good knowledge of the society, history & culture of the places that produce various artefacts.

This is the reason that for many years I have encouraged people who have an interest in Indonesian weaponry to spend more time reading academic text books and papers dealing with Indonesian, and particularly Javanese & Balinese, society, culture & history, than to spend time reading about Indonesian weaponry.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Why does the pommel have a human face?

I don't know, but I do know that it would not be there if this dress was put on the blade of a person of Islamic beliefs. Maybe it represented the owner of the sugar factory where the original owner of this pedang stood guard at the entry gate.

It is very easy to get caught up in impossible beliefs when one does not have a very good knowledge of the society, history & culture of the places that produce various artefacts.

Well, no. Why do you think that the human face would not be there if this dress was put on the blade of a person of Islamic beliefs?

Islamic weapons are full of animals and human representations. What you wrote is a common belief about Muslims but it is not true. Human and animal representations are only forbidden in mosques.


So yes this short sword could be for Muslims, could be for Europeans, and could be for Hindus because as far I know no one here wrote something that proved anything. Collectors feelings are good but I prefer facts.