Chinese sword for comments

IainN · 1st June 2006, 01:38 PM

That seller had a number of interesting pieces up. As mentioned all the scabbards were new, most of the hilts, and some of the guards were also new. Only one short jian actually looked like an okay piece to me with an original, or at least old, hilting job. The blade on this dao however looked decent but I dislike how all the pieces were finished. To many red flags to be out the money.

What concerned me was the other fakes the seller had listed. Also as mentioned there is the legal issue, the seller didn't mention if he had the proper papers and export license. I'm certainly not willing to paypal $3-400 to HK and then have customs nab it.

ariel · 1st June 2006, 04:43 PM

Knowing next to nothing about Chinese swords, I was also rather positively impressed by how "not pretty" the blade looked. The Chinese junk flooding the market often sports shiny "damascus" steel and looks as new and pristine as money can buy.
So, says I, aren't we dealing with a rare example of an honest Chinese Internet sword collector?
And then I recalled the new wave of Chinese junk: this time around they are counterfeiting not Japanese Katanas or Chinese Daos, but Russian 1881 shashkas ( I guess they noticed the prices these pieces fetch on e-bay....). The quality of those blades is rather close to what Nagawarrior shows here. I guess it took the buggers some time to realize that antique swords should look well...... old? worn out? ... to successfully fool idiots like myself.

I've been fooled not once and not twice by the e-bay bandits, and the main reason was that I WANTED a piece of obvious junk to turn out to be a " dream sleeper" (anyone else with similar experience?

).
But I firmly maintain one rule: every sword with Chinese connection is a fake until proven otherwise. And I resigned to let others do the prooving.

VANDOO · 1st June 2006, 05:33 PM

I WOULD NOT BUY FROM EBAY DEALERS FROM CHINA AS IT IS ILLEGAL TO SELL ANYTHING 100 YEARS OR OLDER. THE PENALTYS FOR GETTING CAUGHT SELLING REAL 100 YEAR OLD THINGS IN CHINA IS FATAL OR WORSE, SO IT IS VERY UNLIKELY THEY WOULD TAKE THE RISK. THE SALE OF REPLICAS AS OLD ANTIQUES IS ENCOURAGED AND COMMON SO THE CHANCE OF GETTING A GOOD OLD SWORD ARE ALMOST AS GOOD AS WINNING THE LOTTERY. SOME OF THE REPLICAS ARE WORTH HAVING DUE TO GOOD WORKMANSHIP BUT OTHER MORE RECENT ONES ARE VERY POORLY MADE. I USED TO BUY SOME THINGS FROM CHINA AS THEIR ART AND CRAFTSMANSHIP IS OF GOOD QUALITY AND WAS A GOOD VALUE ON EBAY A FEW YEARS AGO. BUT THEY STARTED CHARGEING A VERY HIGH SHIPPING AND HANDELING FEE ON EVERYTHING MAKEING THEM TOO EXPENSIVE SO I STOPPED BUYING ANYTHING FROM CHINA ON EBAY.

I WOULD FIND A GOOD DEALER OR ONLY BID ON EBAY ITEMS FROM CHINA COMING FROM COUNTRIES OTHER THAN CHINA. BUT BEWARE AS SOME DEALERS FROM OTHER COUNTRYS BUY IT FROM CHINA AND RESELL IT ON EBAY AND YOU STILL HAVE TO PAY SHIPPING FROM CHINA. . SO LOOK AT THE SELLERS FEEDBACK MAKE SURE THE PICTURES ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO SEE AND IF THEY LOOK LIKE THE SAME TYPE OF STUFF COMING OUT OF CHINA AVOID THEM. THE SAFEST WAY TO GET SOMETHING YOU LIKE IS TO BUY FROM A REPUTABLE DEALER. GOOD LUCK

IainN · 1st June 2006, 07:15 PM

Let me just sum up the actual regulations for exporting antiques for China as is my understanding of the situation.

An antique is defined by the Chinese government as made before 1949. Anything dated before 1795 is illegal for export. Period. To export something dated between 1795-1949 requires two things. A Certificate for Relics Export from the Beijing Cultural Relics Bureau, and a red wax seal will be fixed to the item. Usually government stores are set up to provide the paperwork etc... Items without the proper seal and paperwork will be seized by Chinese customs.

I have seen a few Chinese ebayers with purported photos of an export license in their listings which is claimed to allow them to export antiques and is used to try and create a sense of authenticity. This means NOTHING, what you need is that wax seal and the export papers specific to the item.

I suppose it is possible for something genuine to come from a private Chinese seller and clear customs by shear luck, but who wants to take the chance.

1st June 2006, 01:38 PM	#1
IainN Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 31	That seller had a number of interesting pieces up. As mentioned all the scabbards were new, most of the hilts, and some of the guards were also new. Only one short jian actually looked like an okay piece to me with an original, or at least old, hilting job. The blade on this dao however looked decent but I dislike how all the pieces were finished. To many red flags to be out the money. What concerned me was the other fakes the seller had listed. Also as mentioned there is the legal issue, the seller didn't mention if he had the proper papers and export license. I'm certainly not willing to paypal $3-400 to HK and then have customs nab it.

1st June 2006, 04:43 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Knowing next to nothing about Chinese swords, I was also rather positively impressed by how "not pretty" the blade looked. The Chinese junk flooding the market often sports shiny "damascus" steel and looks as new and pristine as money can buy. So, says I, aren't we dealing with a rare example of an honest Chinese Internet sword collector? And then I recalled the new wave of Chinese junk: this time around they are counterfeiting not Japanese Katanas or Chinese Daos, but Russian 1881 shashkas ( I guess they noticed the prices these pieces fetch on e-bay....). The quality of those blades is rather close to what Nagawarrior shows here. I guess it took the buggers some time to realize that antique swords should look well...... old? worn out? ... to successfully fool idiots like myself. I've been fooled not once and not twice by the e-bay bandits, and the main reason was that I WANTED a piece of obvious junk to turn out to be a " dream sleeper" (anyone else with similar experience? ). But I firmly maintain one rule: every sword with Chinese connection is a fake until proven otherwise. And I resigned to let others do the prooving.

1st June 2006, 05:33 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I WOULD NOT BUY FROM EBAY DEALERS FROM CHINA AS IT IS ILLEGAL TO SELL ANYTHING 100 YEARS OR OLDER. THE PENALTYS FOR GETTING CAUGHT SELLING REAL 100 YEAR OLD THINGS IN CHINA IS FATAL OR WORSE, SO IT IS VERY UNLIKELY THEY WOULD TAKE THE RISK. THE SALE OF REPLICAS AS OLD ANTIQUES IS ENCOURAGED AND COMMON SO THE CHANCE OF GETTING A GOOD OLD SWORD ARE ALMOST AS GOOD AS WINNING THE LOTTERY. SOME OF THE REPLICAS ARE WORTH HAVING DUE TO GOOD WORKMANSHIP BUT OTHER MORE RECENT ONES ARE VERY POORLY MADE. I USED TO BUY SOME THINGS FROM CHINA AS THEIR ART AND CRAFTSMANSHIP IS OF GOOD QUALITY AND WAS A GOOD VALUE ON EBAY A FEW YEARS AGO. BUT THEY STARTED CHARGEING A VERY HIGH SHIPPING AND HANDELING FEE ON EVERYTHING MAKEING THEM TOO EXPENSIVE SO I STOPPED BUYING ANYTHING FROM CHINA ON EBAY. I WOULD FIND A GOOD DEALER OR ONLY BID ON EBAY ITEMS FROM CHINA COMING FROM COUNTRIES OTHER THAN CHINA. BUT BEWARE AS SOME DEALERS FROM OTHER COUNTRYS BUY IT FROM CHINA AND RESELL IT ON EBAY AND YOU STILL HAVE TO PAY SHIPPING FROM CHINA. . SO LOOK AT THE SELLERS FEEDBACK MAKE SURE THE PICTURES ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO SEE AND IF THEY LOOK LIKE THE SAME TYPE OF STUFF COMING OUT OF CHINA AVOID THEM. THE SAFEST WAY TO GET SOMETHING YOU LIKE IS TO BUY FROM A REPUTABLE DEALER. GOOD LUCK

1st June 2006, 07:15 PM	#4
IainN Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 31	Let me just sum up the actual regulations for exporting antiques for China as is my understanding of the situation. An antique is defined by the Chinese government as made before 1949. Anything dated before 1795 is illegal for export. Period. To export something dated between 1795-1949 requires two things. A Certificate for Relics Export from the Beijing Cultural Relics Bureau, and a red wax seal will be fixed to the item. Usually government stores are set up to provide the paperwork etc... Items without the proper seal and paperwork will be seized by Chinese customs. I have seen a few Chinese ebayers with purported photos of an export license in their listings which is claimed to allow them to export antiques and is used to try and create a sense of authenticity. This means NOTHING, what you need is that wax seal and the export papers specific to the item. I suppose it is possible for something genuine to come from a private Chinese seller and clear customs by shear luck, but who wants to take the chance.