Bugis Keris

Gustav · 4th April 2021, 05:04 PM

Two another wooden examples, and for comparison an old ivory one. The ivory one is almost not "teleng" (more like a regular Java Demam), also the angle of the head part to main body is completeley different, much smaller (more upright)and is quite similar to David's hilt. Note the attempt to carve floral ornament on one arm. There is a feeling of this hilt being either very worn or more likely not really finished, and perhaps one also feels carvers unfamiliarity with material and the size limitations. The attempt to carve extra decoration may be a compensation for the lack of would grain, which normally would animate the plains.

I would call this ivory hilt stiff.

Gustav · 4th April 2021, 05:20 PM

Please note the area above the hand on the chest of the figure. This is the only place where David's hilt doesn't follow the common iconographical scheme of a Pipit Teleng hilt. There is a possibility of a mistaken cut by carver, which was covered by making the arm thinner by omitting the three folds (?) above it (compare with the other examples) and continuing the vertical indentation, but in different angle. The whole area looks revised and perhaps a little bit unconvincing in comparison.

Gustav · 4th April 2021, 05:35 PM

A couple of recently carved examples, two woodden ones and an ivory one, all acurately carved, but stiff compared to the old wooden hilts. The ivory one is quite good work, the angle of the head to body is right, but the head noticeably to short - again possibly the limitation of the material size. I think, I must not explain further what I mean with bulging, or perhaps better, protruding eyes.

The last picture is the only one available of a Pipit Teleng hilt on a Keris Malela blade. As the blade could possibly be antique, the same could go for hilt. One can judge only the "teleng" angle of the head from that picture, but it's a good one.

Gustav · 4th April 2021, 05:46 PM

At least, I must say, photographing such multiply bent and twisted objects like Pipit Teleng hilts is very difficult (to give viewer a possibility to judge the overall shape from a couple of pictures), and for a viewer to get an idea of a complete object from a couple of pictures also requires considerable skill.
The best is to handle and compare them in the hand.

Here a couple of pictures of mine. These are only average quality, one has fancier grain, but the other is a bit better carved regarding the flow of masses.
Almost unperceptible in pictures, noticeable in hand.

Jean · 4th April 2021, 06:39 PM

Very interesting Gustav, thanks! We can clearly see the differences with the East Sumatran hilts.

David · 4th April 2021, 08:29 PM

Thanks Gustav for posting all these fine examples of Pipit Teleng hilts. To be clear, while i did not respond to your first post on this thread, i most certainly saw it. Forgive me for not responded, but by the time you had posted i had already come to most of the conclusions you were making and then became distracted from other posts and questions.
I agree that your use of the word "bulging" to describe the eyes of most Pipit Teleng is a bit misplaced. But i would even refrain from using the term "protruding". The eyes are indeed raised a bit from the surface in many of your examples, but they don't jump out at you as i would expect something described as bulging or even protruding would. They are simply delineated is a relief manner.
I do think it strange that you seem to be so dismissive of this keris because it is not the perfected Pipit Teleng form you seem to so admire. For me that is part of its charm and frankly i would take my hilt over any of the other Pipit Teleng hilts you have chosen to show here. It has a spirit and personality that the others lack for me. Truth be told, i actually don't generally like the Pipit Teleng form. To my eye it usually comes off as awkward and uncomfortable and yes, stiff. But i do quite enjoy mine. And i am sure that there are indeed many more awesome examples of these hilts from this "experimental" time period, but you have not shown any of those examples here so i would still hope that someone can present another hilt that i can truly compare with this one. I am not looking for the perfect example of the Pipit Teleng form as you seem to be, so the ways in which mine does not fulfill this ideal are really unimportant to me. If this hilt is "unconvincing" to you it doesn't really matter. And no, i don't think this hilt looks the way it does because of a carver's error or his inability to work well with ivory. I think it simply is what it is. So i would still like to see other hilts like it, because i don't believe anything you have posted compares well with it, especially when it comes to the spiral eyes and floral motifs it presents.

Gustav · 4th April 2021, 08:44 PM

David, it seems I failed to express myself again, my apologies.

For the last time - your hilt surely is unique, one of a kind, from a time period, where many unique, one of a kind hilts were made, in different forms, mixing different forms together, embellishing different forms with carvings not previously seen with these forms.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

4th April 2021, 05:04 PM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Two another wooden examples, and for comparison an old ivory one. The ivory one is almost not "teleng" (more like a regular Java Demam), also the angle of the head part to main body is completeley different, much smaller (more upright)and is quite similar to David's hilt. Note the attempt to carve floral ornament on one arm. There is a feeling of this hilt being either very worn or more likely not really finished, and perhaps one also feels carvers unfamiliarity with material and the size limitations. The attempt to carve extra decoration may be a compensation for the lack of would grain, which normally would animate the plains. I would call this ivory hilt stiff. Attached Images

4th April 2021, 05:20 PM	#2
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Please note the area above the hand on the chest of the figure. This is the only place where David's hilt doesn't follow the common iconographical scheme of a Pipit Teleng hilt. There is a possibility of a mistaken cut by carver, which was covered by making the arm thinner by omitting the three folds (?) above it (compare with the other examples) and continuing the vertical indentation, but in different angle. The whole area looks revised and perhaps a little bit unconvincing in comparison. Attached Images

4th April 2021, 05:35 PM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	A couple of recently carved examples, two woodden ones and an ivory one, all acurately carved, but stiff compared to the old wooden hilts. The ivory one is quite good work, the angle of the head to body is right, but the head noticeably to short - again possibly the limitation of the material size. I think, I must not explain further what I mean with bulging, or perhaps better, protruding eyes. The last picture is the only one available of a Pipit Teleng hilt on a Keris Malela blade. As the blade could possibly be antique, the same could go for hilt. One can judge only the "teleng" angle of the head from that picture, but it's a good one. Attached Images

4th April 2021, 05:46 PM	#4
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	At least, I must say, photographing such multiply bent and twisted objects like Pipit Teleng hilts is very difficult (to give viewer a possibility to judge the overall shape from a couple of pictures), and for a viewer to get an idea of a complete object from a couple of pictures also requires considerable skill. The best is to handle and compare them in the hand. Here a couple of pictures of mine. These are only average quality, one has fancier grain, but the other is a bit better carved regarding the flow of masses. Almost unperceptible in pictures, noticeable in hand. Attached Images Last edited by Gustav; 4th April 2021 at 06:00 PM.

4th April 2021, 06:39 PM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Very interesting Gustav, thanks! We can clearly see the differences with the East Sumatran hilts. Last edited by Jean; 4th April 2021 at 06:54 PM.

4th April 2021, 08:29 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Thanks Gustav for posting all these fine examples of Pipit Teleng hilts. To be clear, while i did not respond to your first post on this thread, i most certainly saw it. Forgive me for not responded, but by the time you had posted i had already come to most of the conclusions you were making and then became distracted from other posts and questions. I agree that your use of the word "bulging" to describe the eyes of most Pipit Teleng is a bit misplaced. But i would even refrain from using the term "protruding". The eyes are indeed raised a bit from the surface in many of your examples, but they don't jump out at you as i would expect something described as bulging or even protruding would. They are simply delineated is a relief manner. I do think it strange that you seem to be so dismissive of this keris because it is not the perfected Pipit Teleng form you seem to so admire. For me that is part of its charm and frankly i would take my hilt over any of the other Pipit Teleng hilts you have chosen to show here. It has a spirit and personality that the others lack for me. Truth be told, i actually don't generally like the Pipit Teleng form. To my eye it usually comes off as awkward and uncomfortable and yes, stiff. But i do quite enjoy mine. And i am sure that there are indeed many more awesome examples of these hilts from this "experimental" time period, but you have not shown any of those examples here so i would still hope that someone can present another hilt that i can truly compare with this one. I am not looking for the perfect example of the Pipit Teleng form as you seem to be, so the ways in which mine does not fulfill this ideal are really unimportant to me. If this hilt is "unconvincing" to you it doesn't really matter. And no, i don't think this hilt looks the way it does because of a carver's error or his inability to work well with ivory. I think it simply is what it is. So i would still like to see other hilts like it, because i don't believe anything you have posted compares well with it, especially when it comes to the spiral eyes and floral motifs it presents.

4th April 2021, 08:44 PM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	David, it seems I failed to express myself again, my apologies. For the last time - your hilt surely is unique, one of a kind, from a time period, where many unique, one of a kind hilts were made, in different forms, mixing different forms together, embellishing different forms with carvings not previously seen with these forms. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.