Requesting Help!! Identifying the specifics of a Kris

David · 16th February 2021, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Jean, I cannot see clearly from the photo, but does your keris have a blumbangan that stops at a ridge, and perhaps a tikel alis, or does it merge into the body of the blade? Does it have the remnant of a greneng?

Compare with the example given in the SKA pakem.

I'm sure Jean can tell you better with the keris in hand, but when i enlarge the image i think i can clearly see defined tikel alis and certainly remnants of greneng.

Jean · 17th February 2021, 09:14 AM

Yes gents, this is dapur jaran guyan "with minor exceptions", the tikel alis is vaguely carved, and the greneng is present but worn

Regards

A. G. Maisey · 17th February 2021, 10:41 AM

Jean, I'd say that if we were to use the SKA pakem as the benchmark, there are more than a few exceptions, but then again, this is really only Surakarta, maybe in Surabaya things are different, and I can find more than a few named dhapurs in that SKA pakem, that more than a few SKA keris people will disagree with.

But all the same, its nice to be able to say something and not generate too much disagreement. If I wanted to stick a name on this keris --- and believe me, I do not --- I'd be looking for a different dhapur but with either more or less luk, for example something that is normally a 9 luk, but I might have a keris exactly the same only it has 5 luk, so I would then name my keris with the same name a the 9 luk, but add "--- luk lima".

Nobody would argue with that.

Well, at least I don't think they would.

But we're talking keris here, anything can happen.

Mickey the Finn · 17th February 2021, 02:41 PM

I wasn't sure about the correct spelling of the name of the dhapur, so I Googled a couple of variants and went with the one which brought up the greater volume of results.
This perhaps very concisely "proves your point" [in a manner of speaking] in the scribd.com post.
Just because most results are spelled in a particular way, it doesn't mean that that is the correct way. Just because many people believe something, that doesn't mean it's true/correct/valid.
In my previous post in the present thread, I was about to touch on the volume and the quality of content of hard-copy keris books available in Bahasa Indonesia. Your scribd.com post explained it more clearly than I could have/ attempted to do.
It's 06:38 and I haven't slept in over 48 hours, so I'll close now, before I lose any more focus.
Mickey

Postscript: Alan, about your post in the present thread at 10:41 AM: I myself could argue with you [or at least express my disagreement], and I perhaps will, but in the future. Or I may ask for clarification, which may make argument or contention needless.

A. G. Maisey · 17th February 2021, 06:21 PM

Mickey, your 48 hour day is over, mine has just begun, it is 5.19am, and in ten minutes or so I start a 500km drive, and tomorrow the same. I'll explain when I get time, but briefly:- just about everything to do with keris is subject to variation of opinion.

Mickey the Finn · 23rd February 2021, 06:50 AM

After some sober second thought, I've realized that I have no desire to argue with any member of this forum. I have no confidence in my ability to hold my own in a keris-related argument or debate with any of the regular contributors to this forum.
I should have asked for clarification first, instead of hastily voicing my willingness [and implying my "know-how"] to contend over a keris-related point.
Sincerely and Respectfully,
Mickey

A. G. Maisey · 23rd February 2021, 07:47 AM

Mickey, I doubt that anybody actually argues here, we're civilised, we discuss, sometimes we pontificate, but we don't really argue, and I took your "argue" as just that, discussion.

I can recall arguments of many years past that were really pretty entertaining, and in all honesty I was sorry to see the argumentative people get on their bikes and ride away. I recall one continental gentleman who was inclined to challenge somebody or other to rapiers at dawn. I found it hilarious --- our mediators did not though.

But you've left me up in the air. May I enquire what it was that I wrote that raised a question in your mind?

17th February 2021, 02:41 PM	#4
Mickey the Finn Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 90	Re: Jarang goyang, etc. I wasn't sure about the correct spelling of the name of the dhapur, so I Googled a couple of variants and went with the one which brought up the greater volume of results. This perhaps very concisely "proves your point" [in a manner of speaking] in the scribd.com post. Just because most results are spelled in a particular way, it doesn't mean that that is the correct way. Just because many people believe something, that doesn't mean it's true/correct/valid. In my previous post in the present thread, I was about to touch on the volume and the quality of content of hard-copy keris books available in Bahasa Indonesia. Your scribd.com post explained it more clearly than I could have/ attempted to do. It's 06:38 and I haven't slept in over 48 hours, so I'll close now, before I lose any more focus. Mickey Postscript: Alan, about your post in the present thread at 10:41 AM: I myself could argue with you [or at least express my disagreement], and I perhaps will, but in the future. Or I may ask for clarification, which may make argument or contention needless. Last edited by Mickey the Finn; 17th February 2021 at 02:58 PM. Reason: Postscript.

17th February 2021, 09:14 AM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Yes gents, this is dapur jaran guyan "with minor exceptions", the tikel alis is vaguely carved, and the greneng is present but worn Regards

17th February 2021, 10:41 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,054	Jean, I'd say that if we were to use the SKA pakem as the benchmark, there are more than a few exceptions, but then again, this is really only Surakarta, maybe in Surabaya things are different, and I can find more than a few named dhapurs in that SKA pakem, that more than a few SKA keris people will disagree with. But all the same, its nice to be able to say something and not generate too much disagreement. If I wanted to stick a name on this keris --- and believe me, I do not --- I'd be looking for a different dhapur but with either more or less luk, for example something that is normally a 9 luk, but I might have a keris exactly the same only it has 5 luk, so I would then name my keris with the same name a the 9 luk, but add "--- luk lima". Nobody would argue with that. Well, at least I don't think they would. But we're talking keris here, anything can happen.

17th February 2021, 06:21 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,054	Mickey, your 48 hour day is over, mine has just begun, it is 5.19am, and in ten minutes or so I start a 500km drive, and tomorrow the same. I'll explain when I get time, but briefly:- just about everything to do with keris is subject to variation of opinion.

23rd February 2021, 06:50 AM	#6
Mickey the Finn Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 90	After some sober second thought, I've realized that I have no desire to argue with any member of this forum. I have no confidence in my ability to hold my own in a keris-related argument or debate with any of the regular contributors to this forum. I should have asked for clarification first, instead of hastily voicing my willingness [and implying my "know-how"] to contend over a keris-related point. Sincerely and Respectfully, Mickey

23rd February 2021, 07:47 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,054	Mickey, I doubt that anybody actually argues here, we're civilised, we discuss, sometimes we pontificate, but we don't really argue, and I took your "argue" as just that, discussion. I can recall arguments of many years past that were really pretty entertaining, and in all honesty I was sorry to see the argumentative people get on their bikes and ride away. I recall one continental gentleman who was inclined to challenge somebody or other to rapiers at dawn. I found it hilarious --- our mediators did not though. But you've left me up in the air. May I enquire what it was that I wrote that raised a question in your mind?