Cut-steel smallsword (not mourning)

Jim McDougall · 23rd December 2020, 04:09 AM

Shayde, first I just would like to say this is pretty much a perfectly presented and described example and I like the way you present it with your own observations, research and detailed dimensions. In my view this is a great way to present a weapon for discussion. Thank you!

I think you have pretty much nailed it (no pun intended) in your assessment, and this does appear to be a cut steel hilt of the period 1790-1810. The small sword had been in decline by the 1780s and these fancy hilts were often more fashion statement than functional weapon.
However as you note, this seems quite the contrary. The blade is with the triangular cross section known as 'hollow ground' and used on small swords through the 18th century. 'Hollow' simply means each of the three blade faces were 'hollowed' or ground concave.

I agree this is probably not a 'mourning' sword, which is sort of a misleading term as these swords were not exclusively worn in those circumstances alone. They were considered well as 'town swords' for regular wear and many cut steel swords were blackened or russeted to show off the embellished metal ornamentation.

There is not a lot of detail in Aylward (1945) helpful toward this particular example and I do not have Dean (1929) handy at the moment.

I think the general appearance of this example, which is really attractive in a macabre, mechanical almost a 'steam punk' kind of way, is much in accord with your own assessment. As noted with a similar hilt style in the catalog of one firm, but not with this style of chain, but these dealers operated mostly with pretty much custom work and catalogs represented examples but not necessarily swords on hand. Therefore these type 'chains' may have been almost 'one off' but it seems I have seen this kind of setup before.

As always, looking forward to other input, but this is an extremely esoteric collecting field. It is a most intriguing example!!

fernando · 23rd December 2020, 10:10 AM

Congrats for a splendid unique piece. Thanks much for sharing

.

mariusgmioc · 23rd December 2020, 11:21 AM

Yep, when I first saw the photos I thought of an English 19th century smallsword.

Also from the photos, I would have guessed the hilt is of oxidized silver...

Indeed this type of blade is rather unusual but has been used more frequently in 19th century sword-sticks.

fernando · 23rd December 2020, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

... Indeed this type of blade is rather unusual but has been used more frequently in 19th century sword-sticks.

I take it that you are certain of such assessment, Marius.

What if ...

https://www.reddit.com/r/SWORDS/comm...found_on_many/

shayde78 · 23rd December 2020, 08:04 PM

Thank you for the great feedback, so far. Jim - if my presentation is one you appreciate, it is only because I have watched all of you and how you either present your own pieces and/or the information you ask others to provide. It is a representation of good mentorship by the forum en masse.

I wanted to clarify that this blade is NOT hollow-ground. The faces of the blade are totally flat. I think Marius is correct in that this type of blade might appear in a sword sticks, and the like. It reminds me of estoc blades (although those would typically be 4-sided) but I am in no way suggesting this is such a blade. Merely reminiscent of such. I do feel the blade is original to this hilt, however, as all is well balanced, the scabbard is made to fit, and the proportions are otherwise right. The peen also looks to be original and untampered with.

Would you agree the tassels on the chain at the pommel end are designed to emulate a sword knot? This is pure speculation on my part, but seems possible.

fernando · 24th December 2020, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shayde78

... I wanted to clarify that this blade is NOT hollow-ground. The faces of the blade are totally flat...

Oops

.
Still i wasn't considering that triangular 'flat' blades were a feature primarily created for sword canes. I am perhaps influenced by seeing these in other weapons like, for the case, genuine daggers and stillettos. Not to speak that is not uncommon that captions in books/catalogues depicting swords with triangular blades omit the hollow ground particular ... as in two that i am looking at, now.

mariusgmioc · 24th December 2020, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Oops

.
Still i wasn't considering that triangular 'flat' blades were a feature primarily created for sword canes. I am perhaps influenced by seeing these in other weapons like, for the case, genuine daggers and stillettos. Not to speak that is not uncommon that captions in books/catalogues depicting swords with triangular blades omit the hollow ground particular ... as in two that i am looking at, now.

"Oops" indeed!

Yes Fernando, I also had several smallswords with triangular blades (still have two or three if I remember correctly), but none has this flat-faced triangular cross-section.

23rd December 2020, 04:09 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,585	Shayde, first I just would like to say this is pretty much a perfectly presented and described example and I like the way you present it with your own observations, research and detailed dimensions. In my view this is a great way to present a weapon for discussion. Thank you! I think you have pretty much nailed it (no pun intended) in your assessment, and this does appear to be a cut steel hilt of the period 1790-1810. The small sword had been in decline by the 1780s and these fancy hilts were often more fashion statement than functional weapon. However as you note, this seems quite the contrary. The blade is with the triangular cross section known as 'hollow ground' and used on small swords through the 18th century. 'Hollow' simply means each of the three blade faces were 'hollowed' or ground concave. I agree this is probably not a 'mourning' sword, which is sort of a misleading term as these swords were not exclusively worn in those circumstances alone. They were considered well as 'town swords' for regular wear and many cut steel swords were blackened or russeted to show off the embellished metal ornamentation. There is not a lot of detail in Aylward (1945) helpful toward this particular example and I do not have Dean (1929) handy at the moment. I think the general appearance of this example, which is really attractive in a macabre, mechanical almost a 'steam punk' kind of way, is much in accord with your own assessment. As noted with a similar hilt style in the catalog of one firm, but not with this style of chain, but these dealers operated mostly with pretty much custom work and catalogs represented examples but not necessarily swords on hand. Therefore these type 'chains' may have been almost 'one off' but it seems I have seen this kind of setup before. As always, looking forward to other input, but this is an extremely esoteric collecting field. It is a most intriguing example!!

23rd December 2020, 10:10 AM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Congrats for a splendid unique piece. Thanks much for sharing .

23rd December 2020, 11:21 AM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Yep, when I first saw the photos I thought of an English 19th century smallsword. Also from the photos, I would have guessed the hilt is of oxidized silver... Indeed this type of blade is rather unusual but has been used more frequently in 19th century sword-sticks.

23rd December 2020, 08:04 PM	#5
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Thank you for the great feedback, so far. Jim - if my presentation is one you appreciate, it is only because I have watched all of you and how you either present your own pieces and/or the information you ask others to provide. It is a representation of good mentorship by the forum en masse. I wanted to clarify that this blade is NOT hollow-ground. The faces of the blade are totally flat. I think Marius is correct in that this type of blade might appear in a sword sticks, and the like. It reminds me of estoc blades (although those would typically be 4-sided) but I am in no way suggesting this is such a blade. Merely reminiscent of such. I do feel the blade is original to this hilt, however, as all is well balanced, the scabbard is made to fit, and the proportions are otherwise right. The peen also looks to be original and untampered with. Would you agree the tassels on the chain at the pommel end are designed to emulate a sword knot? This is pure speculation on my part, but seems possible.