Information concerning a Keris (Czerny's)

JBG163 · 4th March 2020, 11:29 AM

Dear all,
i was looking in some czerny's catalog and a keris got my eyes.
I wanted to know your opinion about it (it is already sold).
Look like a keris ligan, concerning age, it's dated 19th. The garap looks nice, and the blade well forged.
What could be the greenish aspect of the blade ?
Thanks in advance for your toughts,
Julien

Marcokeris · 4th March 2020, 02:03 PM

IMO a nice Lombok (or Balinese) keris and the colour of the blade is because is dirty and rusty. About the age I am not able to say .... but the whole does not seem recent to me.

Jean · 4th March 2020, 02:22 PM

I agree with Marco.
I placed a bid on this piece but lost...

JBG163 · 4th March 2020, 02:28 PM

Me too Jean, Me too

. I hope it will be resell in some times

kai · 5th March 2020, 11:52 PM

Hello Julien,

Quote:

I hope it will be resell in some times

Sorry - very unlikely to happen anytime soon...

BTW, I believe the fittings are younger than the blade.

Regards,
Kai

Anthony G. · 11th December 2020, 01:57 AM

Apparently the origin of this keris is from a dealer in Singapore who sold it overseas. Nice keris. So who is the type of user for this kind of design back in old days? Priest? Warriors? Maybe.

A. G. Maisey · 11th December 2020, 02:16 AM

This sort of hilt is supposedly the hilt of a young man, however, opinions I have heard in Bali are that it is the hilt of a warrior.

The binding can be human hair, a woman's hair, or more often coconut fibre, its purpose, again supposedly, is that it provides a firm grip when the victim's blood is running all over your keris & your hands, and probably your head and chest as well.

Off hand I do not know the Balinese name for this blade form, but the Jawa name would be sepang, possibly something different in Bali.

In Jawa sepang brings marital contentment and the rapid production of a child --- jangan sampai lupa:- DUA CUKUP!!

David · 12th December 2020, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Sorry - very unlikely to happen anytime soon...

BTW, I believe the fittings are younger than the blade.

From this response can we assume this blade is now in your trust custodianship? If so i hope we might eventually see some images of it once you renew it's appearance somewhat.

As for the fittings being younger than the blade, i would say that is probably a given with most of the antique keris we own.

David · 12th December 2020, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In Jawa sepang brings marital contentment and the rapid production of a child --- jangan sampai lupa:- DUA CUKUP!!

Sorry Alan, but i'm going to call you out just a little bit here.
As you probably know, Google Translator is to Indonesian languages what a car crusher is to a junkyard automobile. You know it was once a vehicle and you can still see parts of what it once was, but now it has little meaning.
What i get from it is:
"Do not forget: - TWO ENOUGH!!"
But since keris sepang is supposed to encourage child birth is this phrase really meant to mean "Two is NOT enough"?

JustYS · 12th December 2020, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Sorry Alan, but i'm going to call you out just a little bit here.
As you probably know, Google Translator is to Indonesian languages what a car crusher is to a junkyard automobile. You know it was once a vehicle and you can still see parts of what it once was, but now it has little meaning.
What i get from it is:
"Do not forget: - TWO ENOUGH!!"
But since keris sepang is supposed to encourage child birth is this phrase really meant to mean "Two is NOT enough"?

Hi David,

For sure Alan will explain it better than me, meanwhile here is a short explanation:

Your google translation is correct.

I believe Alan is referring to Soeharto’ New Order famous slogan for Planned Family Program: Dua Anak Cukup (Two Kids are Enough).

In the past Indonesian believes that More Kids More Fortune Will Come (Banyak Anak Banyak Rejeki), hence the famous Dua Anak Cukup slogan as Birth Control campaign.

Cheers,

David · 12th December 2020, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustYS

Hi David,

For sure Alan will explain it better than me, meanwhile here is a short explanation:

Your google translation is correct.

I believe Alan is referring to Soeharto’ New Order famous slogan for Planned Family Program: Dua Anak Cukup (Two Kids are Enough).

In the past Indonesian believes that More Kids More Fortune Will Come (Banyak Anak Banyak Rejeki), hence the famous Dua Anak Cukup slogan as Birth Control campaign.

Cheers,

Ah, thank you! Yes, i was not aware of the reference. Makes more sense now.

But everything i said about google translator still stands! LOL!

Anthony G. · 12th December 2020, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Sorry Alan, but i'm going to call you out just a little bit here.
As you probably know, Google Translator is to Indonesian languages what a car crusher is to a junkyard automobile. You know it was once a vehicle and you can still see parts of what it once was, but now it has little meaning.
What i get from it is:
"Do not forget: - TWO ENOUGH!!"
But since keris sepang is supposed to encourage child birth is this phrase really meant to mean "Two is NOT enough"?

Hi David

I am confused now, keris sepang is use by warriors and it is also to encourage child birth? I murder a person thru fighting and at same time i am encouraging people to make babies as well? :P

A. G. Maisey · 12th December 2020, 09:42 AM

The hilt for fighters, the blade for lovers.

You wanna be fighter or lover?

Or maybe both in the same skin?

Makes sense to me:- as a fighter you wipe a few undesirables out, as a lover you help to replace them.

The dua cukup thing became a bit of a joke when the slogan was current, it was applied in many more applications than just the limiting of the number of children.

4th March 2020, 11:29 AM	#1
JBG163 Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: France Posts: 207	Information concerning a Keris (Czerny's) Dear all, i was looking in some czerny's catalog and a keris got my eyes. I wanted to know your opinion about it (it is already sold). Look like a keris ligan, concerning age, it's dated 19th. The garap looks nice, and the blade well forged. What could be the greenish aspect of the blade ? Thanks in advance for your toughts, Julien Attached Images

11th December 2020, 02:16 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	This sort of hilt is supposedly the hilt of a young man, however, opinions I have heard in Bali are that it is the hilt of a warrior. The binding can be human hair, a woman's hair, or more often coconut fibre, its purpose, again supposedly, is that it provides a firm grip when the victim's blood is running all over your keris & your hands, and probably your head and chest as well. Off hand I do not know the Balinese name for this blade form, but the Jawa name would be sepang, possibly something different in Bali. In Jawa sepang brings marital contentment and the rapid production of a child --- jangan sampai lupa:- DUA CUKUP!! Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 11th December 2020 at 02:42 AM.

4th March 2020, 02:03 PM	#2
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	IMO a nice Lombok (or Balinese) keris and the colour of the blade is because is dirty and rusty. About the age I am not able to say .... but the whole does not seem recent to me.

4th March 2020, 02:22 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I agree with Marco. I placed a bid on this piece but lost...

4th March 2020, 02:28 PM	#4
JBG163 Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: France Posts: 207	Me too Jean, Me too . I hope it will be resell in some times

11th December 2020, 01:57 AM	#6
Anthony G. Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 463	Apparently the origin of this keris is from a dealer in Singapore who sold it overseas. Nice keris. So who is the type of user for this kind of design back in old days? Priest? Warriors? Maybe.

12th December 2020, 09:42 AM	#13
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	The hilt for fighters, the blade for lovers. You wanna be fighter or lover? Or maybe both in the same skin? Makes sense to me:- as a fighter you wipe a few undesirables out, as a lover you help to replace them. The dua cukup thing became a bit of a joke when the slogan was current, it was applied in many more applications than just the limiting of the number of children.