Chinese daggers - more colourful as christmas trees

Jim McDougall · 9th December 2020, 01:33 PM

Robin, I agree, these are very 'Christmasey'

, astutely noted (wouldn't mind having one under my tree!).
Your questions are well placed.

I agree with Mahratt, the use of the word vintage is likely the best description, and these do seem to have been a style and character around for quite some time, probably embellished versions of much earlier examples.

I have seen these in antique stores, often, if not typically, listed as 'Tibetan'. I have been under the impression these may have been votive pieces in Tibetan temples, and dramatic symbolism is key in Tantric Buddhism and Bon religions. Precious stones and symbolic values of them is well established in the ritual and presence in these temples. I think of the spiritual 'phurbu' daggers, which are of course smaller but often ornately appointed.

It seems many of these I mention from antique stores were indeed 'vintage' having some age to them, extremely well made, and we may presume China, however remember China's suzerainty in Tibet. Tibetan artisans in border regions often produced weaponry for China as a kind of periodic tribute expectancy. These may have been among that circumstance, and perhaps copied from the votive type weapons I noted.

I agree most auctioneers have a degree of latitude in thier offerings, however most of the more well known ones are somewhat guarded in descriptions as their clientele is usually notably knowledgeable, and reputation is important in the higher strata of collecting. While certainly commercial entities have tried to capitalize on these kinds of 'vintage' examples in more modern times, there are still good numbers of them out there which are/were genuinely intended as either votives or occasionally diplomatic gifts possibly in the manner of the 'tribute' circumstance.

Obviously a number of possibilities, but regardless, these examples shown seem of outstandng quality, the use of precious stones and metalwork not withstanding. I would think these out of the usual lesser qualityof tourist souvenirs.

As noted, everyone is entitled to opinion, and this is mine.
Thank you for sharing these, gave me a Christmas smile!

Philip · 10th December 2020, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Robin,

I have seen these in antique stores, often, if not typically, listed as 'Tibetan'. I have been under the impression these may have been votive pieces in Tibetan temples, and dramatic symbolism is key in Tantric Buddhism and Bon religions. Precious stones and symbolic values of them is well established in the ritual and presence in these temples. I think of the spiritual 'phurbu' daggers, which are of course smaller but often ornately appointed.

!

Jim,
I first saw these in great number on my trips to Hong Kong in the mid 1970s, ( even bought a very nice one as resale merch, whose blade was probably wootz based on what appeared from etching). The dealers over there all described them as "Mongolian" despite the fact that their stores were well-stocked with gilt-copper sculpture and architectural elements yanked out of temples and monasteries looted by the PLA in the 1959 uprising.

For some years I buried my nose in ethnographic research, rooting through books on Inner Asia by travelers and explorers, and examining lots of on-site photos of noblemen, temple treasuries, etc. You'd think that these things would appear in some paragraph or picture . But...NADA.

Just because there are Buddhistic motifs in the deco doesn't mean a link to Tantrism, monasteries, etc. A lot of them are common to Far Eastern deco art themes in general. Also, Beijing was noted for its silversmiths, making decorated utilitarian objects (tinder pouches, horse fittings, trousse scabbards, tea pots, jewelry, etc) for all and sundry. Just as Canton was cranking out furniture and ceramics in a variety of styles for sale to Chinese and foreign buyers (Westerners would order sets of dinnerware emblazoned with their family crests via export merchants in that city). It was a common saying then that there wasn't anything a Chinese workman couldn't copy, that some foreigner wouldn't buy.

9th December 2020, 01:33 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Robin, I agree, these are very 'Christmasey' , astutely noted (wouldn't mind having one under my tree!). Your questions are well placed. I agree with Mahratt, the use of the word vintage is likely the best description, and these do seem to have been a style and character around for quite some time, probably embellished versions of much earlier examples. I have seen these in antique stores, often, if not typically, listed as 'Tibetan'. I have been under the impression these may have been votive pieces in Tibetan temples, and dramatic symbolism is key in Tantric Buddhism and Bon religions. Precious stones and symbolic values of them is well established in the ritual and presence in these temples. I think of the spiritual 'phurbu' daggers, which are of course smaller but often ornately appointed. It seems many of these I mention from antique stores were indeed 'vintage' having some age to them, extremely well made, and we may presume China, however remember China's suzerainty in Tibet. Tibetan artisans in border regions often produced weaponry for China as a kind of periodic tribute expectancy. These may have been among that circumstance, and perhaps copied from the votive type weapons I noted. I agree most auctioneers have a degree of latitude in thier offerings, however most of the more well known ones are somewhat guarded in descriptions as their clientele is usually notably knowledgeable, and reputation is important in the higher strata of collecting. While certainly commercial entities have tried to capitalize on these kinds of 'vintage' examples in more modern times, there are still good numbers of them out there which are/were genuinely intended as either votives or occasionally diplomatic gifts possibly in the manner of the 'tribute' circumstance. Obviously a number of possibilities, but regardless, these examples shown seem of outstandng quality, the use of precious stones and metalwork not withstanding. I would think these out of the usual lesser qualityof tourist souvenirs. As noted, everyone is entitled to opinion, and this is mine. Thank you for sharing these, gave me a Christmas smile!