Keris Bugis Raja Gundala

nechesh · 21st May 2006, 04:10 PM

Thanks fror the pictures Satria. Is the first one truly and example of Raja Gundala? It appears to be accentuated with carving, not merely the pamor itself.

Satria · 21st May 2006, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

Thanks fror the pictures Satria. Is the first one truly and example of Raja Gundala? It appears to be accentuated with carving, not merely the pamor itself.

Thanks Nechesh....
That is not carving....actually in the edge of body of puthut figure is the line of sogokan. Sorry the picture is not good enough.
This is the other side of that "sor-soran".....still puthut figure too but not so clear like the other one.This picture is not good enough too.....sorry.

Rick · 21st May 2006, 10:16 PM

Being skeptical about the first Raja Gundala figure being unimproved myself ; it's just too realistic . The other side does look more naturally occurring ; no insult intended here Satria .

I'm interested in finding out more about this ; but it seems to me as a Westerner that these interpretations of random pamor patterns are pretty subjective .

As I said on this subject in my earlier post " like interpreting the shapes of clouds " ; it's in the eye of the beholder .

Lei Shen Dao · 22nd May 2006, 12:10 AM

Hey guys

Nice photos

!
Interesting stuff. The truth is that generally some images/forms are too obvious and of course as Rick said, others maybe just wissfull thinking.
Being interested more in the esoteric and the pamor aspect, I have an affection for Raja Guntala.
I'll try to post a photo of a very interesting tiban with 5 images in the sor-soran area, one of them a flykick!

But I am trying to find the possible tanguh of this keris and the dapur.
It isn't tilam upih, is it?

Alam Shah · 22nd May 2006, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lei Shen Dao

Hey guys. Nice photos

!
But I am trying to find the possible tanguh of this keris and the dapur.
It isn't tilam upih, is it?

The dapur does looks like Tilam Upih to me.

VANDOO · 22nd May 2006, 03:35 AM

AHA! FINALLY SOMETHING RELATING TO KERIS I AM GOOD AT

I CAN SEE THE THINGS YOU POINT OUT AS WELL AS A FEW OTHER THINGS. MY FAVORITE KERIS IS LIKE LOOKING AT FLAMES, SMOKE AND CLOUDS YOU CAN SEE MANY DIFFERENT THINGS AT DIFFERENT TIMES AND OFTEN MANY THINGS AT ONCE.

Alam Shah · 22nd May 2006, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

AHA! FINALLY SOMETHING RELATING TO KERIS I AM GOOD AT

I CAN SEE THE THINGS YOU POINT OUT AS WELL AS A FEW OTHER THINGS. MY FAVORITE KERIS IS LIKE LOOKING AT FLAMES, SMOKE AND CLOUDS YOU CAN SEE MANY DIFFERENT THINGS AT DIFFERENT TIMES AND OFTEN MANY THINGS AT ONCE.

Vandoo, don't be shy..

we wanna see yours...too. As the saying goes... "a picture shows a thousand word, the question is which one...". Last used in The Da Vinci Code movie, where Tom Hanks was giving a lecture with an onscreen display.

BluErf · 23rd May 2006, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I'm interested in finding out more about this ; but it seems to me as a Westerner that these interpretations of random pamor patterns are pretty subjective .

As I said on this subject in my earlier post " like interpreting the shapes of clouds " ; it's in the eye of the beholder .

Yes Rick, you are right - its in the eye of the beholder.

Thus, different people would see different things, and sometimes, miss something completely. I guess it's the keris' way of 'communicating' with the owner.

Isreena · 23rd May 2006, 07:08 PM

Hello People,

Mr Lei Seh Dao,
Your earliar picture of Raja Gundolo is not a FISH? It is actually a symbol of "LAM ALIF" or "LAM JALALA". One of the Arabic letter of alphabet. I suspect that it is not tiban. It is a planned pamor. No doubt, it is indeed a very good pamor symbol in a keris.

Mr Satria,
I'm sorry but I have to agree with Ricky. The pamor Pendita you are having is not a pamor tiban. To have both side having the same looking picture made it worse to be categorized as pamor tiban. However, it is a very good effort to make the pamor to look like a Raja Gundolo.

By the way guys? What pink light are you guys talking about? The shape of the pamors have been highlighted with different colours for easy viewing.

nechesh · 23rd May 2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isreena

Mr Lei Seh Dao,
Your earliar picture of Raja Gundolo is not a FISH? It is actually a symbol of "LAM ALIF" or "LAM JALALA". One of the Arabic letter of alphabet. I suspect that it is not tiban. It is a planned pamor. No doubt, it is indeed a very good pamor symbol in a keris.

I noticed this also, bit for some reason failed to comment. Martin Kerner talks about this in "Keris in the Magic World View". I think you are possibly right that this part of the pamor IS intentional. However, the "big" fish chasing it could perhaps still be considered Raja Gundolo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isreena

I'm sorry but I have to agree with Ricky. The pamor Pendita you are having is not a pamor tiban. To have both side having the same looking picture made it worse to be categorized as pamor tiban. However, it is a very good effort to make the pamor to look like a Raja Gundolo.

I agree here also......don't you... Ricky?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isreena

By the way guys? What pink light are you guys talking about? The shape of the pamors have been highlighted with different colours for easy viewing.

You are right, i can now see that the "pink" color is actually from a red highlighter around the inner pamor.

You see that too....don't you Ricky?

Rick · 23rd May 2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

I noticed this also, bit for some reason failed to comment. Martin Kerner talks about this in "Keris in the Magic World View". I think you are possibly right that this part of the pamor IS intentional. However, the "big" fish chasing it could perhaps still be considered Raja Gundolo.

I agree here also......don't you... Ricky?

You are right, i can now see that the "pink" color is actually from a red highlighter around the inner pamor.

You see that too....don't you Ricky?

All right Davey ; no hassling the Moderator .

Isreena the name is Rick ; not the diminutive form 'Ricky' .

As for the 'pinkness' around the pamor I can't see it cause kampung net takes forever to download on my computer and times out .

Andrew · 23rd May 2006, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

You see that too....don't you Ricky?

lol!

Satria · 24th May 2006, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isreena

Mr Satria,
I'm sorry but I have to agree with Ricky. The pamor Pendita you are having is not a pamor tiban. To have both side having the same looking picture made it worse to be categorized as pamor tiban. However, it is a very good effort to make the pamor to look like a Raja Gundolo.

Mr. Isreena...
Thank for your comment.
Actually I will not claim that pamor raja gundala ( pandita ) in that keris is original. My point is just showing the sample of pamor raja gundala....and that is not carving stuff.

I ever post that keris in this forum with question old keris or reforging keris.( please search use my name ). Some people said that keris is Pajang era, but in my opinion that keris is reforging keris from old material.
The problem is......that raja gundala pamor ( pendita ) maybe not "pamor tiban ", so maybe "pamor rekan".

.
I hope you got my point.

In my opinion....original pamor raja gundala is Tiban ( unplanning ) and another people must be so easy to image the illustrate of pamor raja gundala ( ex. human, ghost, animal ).....and of course from old keris is much better

************
Just for info....this is part of my collection :

http://midinakeris.fotopic.net/

thanks.

Lei Shen Dao · 24th May 2006, 12:58 PM

Mr. Isreena

Thank you for your infos.

I tryied all night to find these "letters" in the net to have a clue, although like Nechesh said it is most likely the belanak that chase the small fish to be pamor tiban (I was told that is tiban all the way though).

But I have never heard before about these kind of letters in the pamor, so I find that very very interesting and quite a new knowledge for me.

Martin Kerner's book, is there anywere to buy it?

21st May 2006, 10:16 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,346	I'll Admit To Being skeptical about the first Raja Gundala figure being unimproved myself ; it's just too realistic . The other side does look more naturally occurring ; no insult intended here Satria . I'm interested in finding out more about this ; but it seems to me as a Westerner that these interpretations of random pamor patterns are pretty subjective . As I said on this subject in my earlier post " like interpreting the shapes of clouds " ; it's in the eye of the beholder .

23rd May 2006, 07:08 PM	#9
Isreena Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 9	Raja Gundala Hello People, Mr Lei Seh Dao, Your earliar picture of Raja Gundolo is not a FISH? It is actually a symbol of "LAM ALIF" or "LAM JALALA". One of the Arabic letter of alphabet. I suspect that it is not tiban. It is a planned pamor. No doubt, it is indeed a very good pamor symbol in a keris. Mr Satria, I'm sorry but I have to agree with Ricky. The pamor Pendita you are having is not a pamor tiban. To have both side having the same looking picture made it worse to be categorized as pamor tiban. However, it is a very good effort to make the pamor to look like a Raja Gundolo. By the way guys? What pink light are you guys talking about? The shape of the pamors have been highlighted with different colours for easy viewing.

21st May 2006, 04:10 PM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Thanks fror the pictures Satria. Is the first one truly and example of Raja Gundala? It appears to be accentuated with carving, not merely the pamor itself.

22nd May 2006, 12:10 AM	#4
Lei Shen Dao Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 43	Hey guys Nice photos ! Interesting stuff. The truth is that generally some images/forms are too obvious and of course as Rick said, others maybe just wissfull thinking. Being interested more in the esoteric and the pamor aspect, I have an affection for Raja Guntala. I'll try to post a photo of a very interesting tiban with 5 images in the sor-soran area, one of them a flykick! But I am trying to find the possible tanguh of this keris and the dapur. It isn't tilam upih, is it?

22nd May 2006, 03:35 AM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	AHA! FINALLY SOMETHING RELATING TO KERIS I AM GOOD AT I CAN SEE THE THINGS YOU POINT OUT AS WELL AS A FEW OTHER THINGS. MY FAVORITE KERIS IS LIKE LOOKING AT FLAMES, SMOKE AND CLOUDS YOU CAN SEE MANY DIFFERENT THINGS AT DIFFERENT TIMES AND OFTEN MANY THINGS AT ONCE.

24th May 2006, 12:58 PM	#14
Lei Shen Dao Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 43	Mr. Isreena Thank you for your infos. I tryied all night to find these "letters" in the net to have a clue, although like Nechesh said it is most likely the belanak that chase the small fish to be pamor tiban (I was told that is tiban all the way though). But I have never heard before about these kind of letters in the pamor, so I find that very very interesting and quite a new knowledge for me. Martin Kerner's book, is there anywere to buy it?