Help with translation - Kard with jade hilt

Gonzoadler · 6th October 2020, 02:15 PM

and more

:

Gonzoadler · 6th October 2020, 08:41 PM

Hmm, because of ariels hint I see that the inscription is turned upside down.
I add one more photo...
Any comments are welcome

mariusgmioc · 7th October 2020, 07:37 AM

Thank you for the additional photos!

You are right. The scabbard appears to have the Turgha mark which makes it quite certainly Ottoman.

Also the wootz patterning, with longer streaks (see photo) does not look like the typical Indian (which tends to have finer and more uniform watering pattern) but Persian, so the knife might indeed be Ottoman (since many Ottoman weapons were made using Persian blades).

Yet, the front bolster looks so much Indian...

Gonzoadler · 8th October 2020, 12:10 PM

I have completed some missing parts of the Koftgari. I hope that helps. Now I'm not sure if there is a year in the text.

kwiatek · 10th October 2020, 08:49 PM

The inscription on the blade is in Arabic and reads

لا اله الا الله

"There is no god but God“

The stamps are an Ottoman sultanic tughra as well as a sahh (“true, correct”) mark, both of which were used as assay marks for silver. With a very detailed close-up I might be able to read the tughra

Gonzoadler · 11th October 2020, 09:11 PM

Thank you very much, kwiatek!
I really appreciate that.
Here are some close ups of the Tughra. The hallmark isn't very sharp and my pictures too (cheap camera) but maybe you can read something.
The better mark is on the mouth plate, there is one more on the ferule.

Regards
Robin

Gonzoadler · 11th October 2020, 09:19 PM

Not so close:

kwiatek · 10th November 2020, 08:30 PM

Thanks for the extra photos. Unfortunately they are too worn to read from the photos - I would need a magnifying glass and Garo Kürkman’s book on Ottoman silver marks to identify them. They are for sure 19th-c. though

Gonzoadler · 13th November 2020, 11:23 AM

Hello kwiatek,

yes, the hallmark is really hard to read.
Thanks for your help.

6th October 2020, 02:15 PM	#1
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 255	and more : Attached Images

6th October 2020, 08:41 PM	#2
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 255	Hmm, because of ariels hint I see that the inscription is turned upside down. I add one more photo... Any comments are welcome Attached Images

7th October 2020, 07:37 AM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	Thank you for the additional photos! You are right. The scabbard appears to have the Turgha mark which makes it quite certainly Ottoman. Also the wootz patterning, with longer streaks (see photo) does not look like the typical Indian (which tends to have finer and more uniform watering pattern) but Persian, so the knife might indeed be Ottoman (since many Ottoman weapons were made using Persian blades). Yet, the front bolster looks so much Indian... Attached Images Last edited by mariusgmioc; 7th October 2020 at 09:59 AM.

8th October 2020, 12:10 PM	#4
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 255	I have completed some missing parts of the Koftgari. I hope that helps. Now I'm not sure if there is a year in the text. Attached Images

11th October 2020, 09:11 PM	#6
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 255	Thank you very much, kwiatek! I really appreciate that. Here are some close ups of the Tughra. The hallmark isn't very sharp and my pictures too (cheap camera) but maybe you can read something. The better mark is on the mouth plate, there is one more on the ferule. Regards Robin Attached Images

10th October 2020, 08:49 PM	#5
kwiatek Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 153	The inscription on the blade is in Arabic and reads لا اله الا الله "There is no god but God“ The stamps are an Ottoman sultanic tughra as well as a sahh (“true, correct”) mark, both of which were used as assay marks for silver. With a very detailed close-up I might be able to read the tughra

11th October 2020, 09:19 PM	#7
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 255	Not so close: Attached Images

10th November 2020, 08:30 PM	#8
kwiatek Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 153	Thanks for the extra photos. Unfortunately they are too worn to read from the photos - I would need a magnifying glass and Garo Kürkman’s book on Ottoman silver marks to identify them. They are for sure 19th-c. though

13th November 2020, 11:23 AM	#9
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 255	Hello kwiatek, yes, the hallmark is really hard to read. Thanks for your help.