Help with translation - Kard with jade hilt

RAMBA · 6th October 2020, 08:36 AM

Looks North Indian Mughal work. Hopefully someone can translate.

mariusgmioc · 6th October 2020, 10:15 AM

Yep, North Indian and at least the blade from late 18th to early 19th century.

It definitely would benefit from some cleaning and etching.

Very nice piece!

PS: While the cartouche may look somehow Ottoman, it has to be remembered that this type of cartouches were common for the whole Ottoman-Persian-Mughal area. Also the cartouche, as well as the scabbard may be later works.

However, like Ariel has noticed, the front bolster with koftgari is rather typical Indian and gives a very good indication about the origins of the knife.
Also the fine watering pattern of the blade may be an indication of its Indian origin but that would become clearer with new etching.

Gonzoadler · 6th October 2020, 02:12 PM

Hello,
thank you for your answers.
For me it is an ottoman Kard because of the shape (like a kitchen knife) and ottoman hallmarks on the silver mountings. One looks like a Tughra of an ottoman sultan. In my opinion the Koftgari is not especially indian. Furthermore there are some decoration elements, like a shell at the tip of the ferrule, which I often seen at ottoman daggers.
I don't think that the scabbard is much younger than the other parts of the dagger.

But the most important question is: What says the inscription?
Thank you ariel for your first advice.

I add some more photos of the inscription, the hallmarks and other details of the dagger. I hope they are helpful and nice to see.

Regards

Gonzoadler · 6th October 2020, 02:13 PM

More photos:

Gonzoadler · 6th October 2020, 02:15 PM

and more

:

Gonzoadler · 6th October 2020, 08:41 PM

Hmm, because of ariels hint I see that the inscription is turned upside down.
I add one more photo...
Any comments are welcome

mariusgmioc · 7th October 2020, 07:37 AM

Thank you for the additional photos!

You are right. The scabbard appears to have the Turgha mark which makes it quite certainly Ottoman.

Also the wootz patterning, with longer streaks (see photo) does not look like the typical Indian (which tends to have finer and more uniform watering pattern) but Persian, so the knife might indeed be Ottoman (since many Ottoman weapons were made using Persian blades).

Yet, the front bolster looks so much Indian...

Gonzoadler · 8th October 2020, 12:10 PM

I have completed some missing parts of the Koftgari. I hope that helps. Now I'm not sure if there is a year in the text.

kwiatek · 10th October 2020, 08:49 PM

The inscription on the blade is in Arabic and reads

لا اله الا الله

"There is no god but God“

The stamps are an Ottoman sultanic tughra as well as a sahh (“true, correct”) mark, both of which were used as assay marks for silver. With a very detailed close-up I might be able to read the tughra

Gonzoadler · 11th October 2020, 09:11 PM

Thank you very much, kwiatek!
I really appreciate that.
Here are some close ups of the Tughra. The hallmark isn't very sharp and my pictures too (cheap camera) but maybe you can read something.
The better mark is on the mouth plate, there is one more on the ferule.

Regards
Robin

Gonzoadler · 11th October 2020, 09:19 PM

Not so close:

6th October 2020, 02:12 PM	#3
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 255	Hello, thank you for your answers. For me it is an ottoman Kard because of the shape (like a kitchen knife) and ottoman hallmarks on the silver mountings. One looks like a Tughra of an ottoman sultan. In my opinion the Koftgari is not especially indian. Furthermore there are some decoration elements, like a shell at the tip of the ferrule, which I often seen at ottoman daggers. I don't think that the scabbard is much younger than the other parts of the dagger. But the most important question is: What says the inscription? Thank you ariel for your first advice. I add some more photos of the inscription, the hallmarks and other details of the dagger. I hope they are helpful and nice to see. Regards Attached Images

6th October 2020, 02:13 PM	#4
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 255	More photos: Attached Images

6th October 2020, 02:15 PM	#5
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 255	and more : Attached Images

6th October 2020, 08:41 PM	#6
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 255	Hmm, because of ariels hint I see that the inscription is turned upside down. I add one more photo... Any comments are welcome Attached Images

7th October 2020, 07:37 AM	#7
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	Thank you for the additional photos! You are right. The scabbard appears to have the Turgha mark which makes it quite certainly Ottoman. Also the wootz patterning, with longer streaks (see photo) does not look like the typical Indian (which tends to have finer and more uniform watering pattern) but Persian, so the knife might indeed be Ottoman (since many Ottoman weapons were made using Persian blades). Yet, the front bolster looks so much Indian... Attached Images Last edited by mariusgmioc; 7th October 2020 at 09:59 AM.

6th October 2020, 08:36 AM	#1
RAMBA Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 102	Looks North Indian Mughal work. Hopefully someone can translate.

6th October 2020, 10:15 AM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	Yep, North Indian and at least the blade from late 18th to early 19th century. It definitely would benefit from some cleaning and etching. Very nice piece! PS: While the cartouche may look somehow Ottoman, it has to be remembered that this type of cartouches were common for the whole Ottoman-Persian-Mughal area. Also the cartouche, as well as the scabbard may be later works. However, like Ariel has noticed, the front bolster with koftgari is rather typical Indian and gives a very good indication about the origins of the knife. Also the fine watering pattern of the blade may be an indication of its Indian origin but that would become clearer with new etching.

8th October 2020, 12:10 PM	#8
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 255	I have completed some missing parts of the Koftgari. I hope that helps. Now I'm not sure if there is a year in the text. Attached Images

10th October 2020, 08:49 PM	#9
kwiatek Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 153	The inscription on the blade is in Arabic and reads لا اله الا الله "There is no god but God“ The stamps are an Ottoman sultanic tughra as well as a sahh (“true, correct”) mark, both of which were used as assay marks for silver. With a very detailed close-up I might be able to read the tughra

11th October 2020, 09:11 PM	#10
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 255	Thank you very much, kwiatek! I really appreciate that. Here are some close ups of the Tughra. The hallmark isn't very sharp and my pictures too (cheap camera) but maybe you can read something. The better mark is on the mouth plate, there is one more on the ferule. Regards Robin Attached Images

11th October 2020, 09:19 PM	#11
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 255	Not so close: Attached Images