English Dragoon sword with Possible Jacobite Connection

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Victrix

Yes that’s an amazing sword, Jim. Lots of history in that one. Love the patina. I visited the battlefield of Culloden once when I was in Scotland. Some of the Scotsmen managed to escape to safety in Sweden: ” After the Battle of Culloden in 1745, one George Carnegie, who in the battle had fought against his elder brother, fled to the hills of Flenesk and Glenmark with James Carnegie, Laird of Balnamoon and an Ochterlony of Guynd. The three rebels shortly escaped in an open boat from Montrose, were picked up by a Swedish ship, and landed safely in Gothenburg.” (Source: https://electricscotland.com/history/sweden/18.htm)

Thank you so much!!! and especially for adding the story!
That is entirely the whole reason for the life's course I began so young, because I loved history, and the swords were iconic.
How amazing it must have been to see Culloden. In our family geneology of course they were Highlanders, and we had ancestors out in both the '15 and '45. The other clans in our ancestry of course were also deeply involved in much other of the history in the Highlands.

I had no idea of the Swedish situation, though I know Scots had been meercenaries in the North European regions much earlier. Prince Charlie ended up back in France, and I know there was a notable Jacobite diaspora after Culloden.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thank you so much!!! and especially for adding the story!
That is entirely the whole reason for the life's course I began so young, because I loved history, and the swords were iconic.
How amazing it must have been to see Culloden. In our family geneology of course they were Highlanders, and we had ancestors out in both the '15 and '45. The other clans in our ancestry of course were also deeply involved in much other of the history in the Highlands.

I had no idea of the Swedish situation, though I know Scots had been meercenaries in the North European regions much earlier. Prince Charlie ended up back in France, and I know there was a notable Jacobite diaspora after Culloden.

Jim, Scotland is fantastic! Culloden is a very beautiful place but also a little sad.

Coincidentally my maternal grandfather’s grandmother was called Ouchterlony (Scottish descent). Her grandfather’s grandfather John Ouchterlony was from Dundee (near Montrose and the Guynd) and settled in Karlshamn, Sweden in 1748, where he became a merchant navy ship captain. I don’t know if he was at Culloden in 1746.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much Victrix! that's a wonderful but poignant photo, and it must have been amazing to have been on that hallowed ground.
It is difficult to say who was or wasn't at Culloden, for that matter exactly which groups were on which side, their reasons for fighting (the politics involved were anything but clear or consistent ) or what happened in the aftermath.

I know that at least some of my ancestral clan was there, MacKinnon's, and that they were involved in assisting Prince Charlie out of the Isles through Skye.

The wonder of these old weapons is that even though we cannot say for certain they were in a certain place or at a certain time or event, they illustrate the types and often serve as examples contemporary to them.
We can believe whatever we like, and in whatever degree.

Thank you for sharing this wonderful perspective!!!

[M ELEY]

The more and more I look at this sword, I love her!! Just an amazing piece of history. Jim, I think you hit it on the head when you mention the assortment of folks that really made up the Jacobite army. There were Scots, of course, as well as Irish to be sure. There was a large contingent of Catholic Frenchmen as well as disgruntled English soldiers as well. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there wasn't a sprinkling of other nationalities in this makeshift (but impassioned) force. Likewise, I know that those loyal to the crown had English, Irish and Scottish forces. I haven't read enough research to see if George's army might have likewise used mercenaries? In any case, not a clear cut usage of exact weaponry, uniforms, etc. I am so hoping to visit Scotland and Culloden someday.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

The more and more I look at this sword, I love her!! Just an amazing piece of history. Jim, I think you hit it on the head when you mention the assortment of folks that really made up the Jacobite army. There were Scots, of course, as well as Irish to be sure. There was a large contingent of Catholic Frenchmen as well as disgruntled English soldiers as well. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there wasn't a sprinkling of other nationalities in this makeshift (but impassioned) force. Likewise, I know that those loyal to the crown had English, Irish and Scottish forces. I haven't read enough research to see if George's army might have likewise used mercenaries? In any case, not a clear cut usage of exact weaponry, uniforms, etc. I am so hoping to visit Scotland and Culloden someday.

Thank you so much Mark! She has meant a lot to me all these years too!
Actually the more read and discover on the Jacobites and this entire period of events, the diversity of groups involved was remarkable. There was really no need for mercenaries as those following thier cause brought notable numbers of forces, so it would have been impossible to guage how many would be required. It was the same for both sides, and as noted, there were Highlanders with the Hanoverians and English with the Jacobites.

I doubt I will ever get to Scotland, but then, perhaps I've already been

[E.B. Erickson]

Nice English basket! That's a type that I never did manage to find an example of.

--ElJay

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by E.B. Erickson

Nice English basket! That's a type that I never did manage to find an example of.

--ElJay

Eljay, thank you so much! That means a lot !!!