Keris Terminology

JeffS · 22nd September 2020, 10:49 PM

This is extremely helpful for a beginner, particularly folks like me that do not (for whatever reasons) intend to dive into the intimidating world of keris research at this time. Being able to understand the descriptive intent of the terms open an entirely different filter for looking at a keris blade, the confusing jumble of details suddenly resolve to defined "understandable" features. This was a huge leap for me. However I found it difficult flicking back and forth from Alan's translation and the diagram so I have produced side-by-side graphics. This also makes, what I assume to be key, the spatial alignment of features in terms of top/bottom and front/back clear. I took liberties, for graphic layout purposes, with Alan's text so please be sure to read his full translation and comments and not rely completely on the English annotated graphic alone.

Alan - If I have made mistakes or skewed your meanings too far (being aware of your precision with words) please let me know, I can edit and update the graphics accordingly.
Bjorn - Did you create the original diagram? If not, and if the owner is not a member of this forum, I would be happy to generate a forum-owned graphic. Someone would need to provide me with a high resolution keris photo to use as a model.

A couple clarification requests regarding ron dha terminology. Having looked up the ron dha character it is abundantly clear that these keris features match the physical shape of the ron dha character. This is the same shape as the jenggot on the left side of the diagram. Would a jenggot be similarly comprised of thingils and a ri pandhan? The other question is that we have a top down alignment of knee and lower leg yet the ron dha nunut would indicate a trailing feature despite being "up" per leg orientation. This seems contrary to the top down alignment. This may just be my spatial bias...

A. G. Maisey · 22nd September 2020, 11:47 PM

Jeff, all these names are euphemisms, the true names are kept hidden, as are the deeper understandings.

Bjorn touched on this in his original post.

Frankly, I can see no problem in the use of English to refer to any of the keris features:- the English word is irrelevant, just as the Javanese or Malay word is irrelevant.

In the absence of true understanding all the words mean nothing.

JeffS · 23rd September 2020, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In the absence of true understanding all the words mean nothing.

They do indicate that the features described (by euphemism) have significance, right? Knowing broadly which features these are and being able to reference them to others seems to be a useful first step in getting a physical understanding of keris layout. Or are you saying that is not relevant?

A. G. Maisey · 23rd September 2020, 12:55 AM

I am saying that giving the character that represents the shortest mantra the name of a letter of the Javanese alphabet is totally unconnected with any understanding of the keris.

The same applies to all the names used to refer to the various characteristics of the keris, and in fact, to the keris itself.

You could liken this to biblical studies:- there is a level of knowledge that is adequate for lay people, a level for the general clergy, a level for the princes of the church and a level that only the head of the church has the burden of carrying.

22nd September 2020, 10:49 PM	#1
JeffS Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 441	This is extremely helpful for a beginner, particularly folks like me that do not (for whatever reasons) intend to dive into the intimidating world of keris research at this time. Being able to understand the descriptive intent of the terms open an entirely different filter for looking at a keris blade, the confusing jumble of details suddenly resolve to defined "understandable" features. This was a huge leap for me. However I found it difficult flicking back and forth from Alan's translation and the diagram so I have produced side-by-side graphics. This also makes, what I assume to be key, the spatial alignment of features in terms of top/bottom and front/back clear. I took liberties, for graphic layout purposes, with Alan's text so please be sure to read his full translation and comments and not rely completely on the English annotated graphic alone. Alan - If I have made mistakes or skewed your meanings too far (being aware of your precision with words) please let me know, I can edit and update the graphics accordingly. Bjorn - Did you create the original diagram? If not, and if the owner is not a member of this forum, I would be happy to generate a forum-owned graphic. Someone would need to provide me with a high resolution keris photo to use as a model. A couple clarification requests regarding ron dha terminology. Having looked up the ron dha character it is abundantly clear that these keris features match the physical shape of the ron dha character. This is the same shape as the jenggot on the left side of the diagram. Would a jenggot be similarly comprised of thingils and a ri pandhan? The other question is that we have a top down alignment of knee and lower leg yet the ron dha nunut would indicate a trailing feature despite being "up" per leg orientation. This seems contrary to the top down alignment. This may just be my spatial bias... Attached Images

22nd September 2020, 11:47 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Jeff, all these names are euphemisms, the true names are kept hidden, as are the deeper understandings. Bjorn touched on this in his original post. Frankly, I can see no problem in the use of English to refer to any of the keris features:- the English word is irrelevant, just as the Javanese or Malay word is irrelevant. In the absence of true understanding all the words mean nothing.

23rd September 2020, 12:55 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	I am saying that giving the character that represents the shortest mantra the name of a letter of the Javanese alphabet is totally unconnected with any understanding of the keris. The same applies to all the names used to refer to the various characteristics of the keris, and in fact, to the keris itself. You could liken this to biblical studies:- there is a level of knowledge that is adequate for lay people, a level for the general clergy, a level for the princes of the church and a level that only the head of the church has the burden of carrying.