Burmese dha use question

kronckew · 7th September 2020, 09:14 AM

They also came in pointy.

Like mine below:

(see also the other point types chart)

kronckew · 7th September 2020, 09:29 AM

Just for interest - an earlier form, the Ayutthayan (Thai) Daab/Dha. The city was destroyed by the Burmese in 1787, so these types were earlier, from a time when they were actually used in battle. Unusual 'yelman' at the point. I have one like it. Very well-balanced and an excellent sturdy weapon. These are in a museum in Thailand.

The Dha's long grip is to balance the blade, they are a one handed weapon, tho a two handed coup-de-grace was occasionally used.

kahnjar1 · 7th September 2020, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Just for interest - an earlier form, the Ayutthayan (Thai) Daab/Dha. The city was destroyed by the Burmese in 1787, so these types were earlier, from a time when they were actually used in battle. Unusual 'yelman' at the point. I have one like it. Very well-balanced and an excellent sturdy weapon. These are in a museum in Thailand.

The Dha's long grip is to balance the blade, they are a one handed weapon, tho a two handed coup-de-grace was occasionally used.

Kronckew mentions Ayutthaya. Here are a couple of pic of how the city looks today.
Stu

kronckew · 7th September 2020, 12:13 PM

It's what the newspaper real estate classifieds call 'a nice little fixer-upper'.

JeffS · 7th September 2020, 05:42 PM

Thank you for clearing up the use question for me, it has been nagging me for awhile! Also interesting about the Husa. They are selling impressive looking watered steel blades with distinct hamon on Ebay, so apparently the tradition is going strong. If reworked, the tip on the dha is very cleanly executed and nicely radiused.

Peter Dekker · 10th September 2020, 08:41 AM

I agree that it is probably reshaped.

The Chinese Shan/Dai minority also made them with this profile from the get-go, but the rest of the dha is not typical Chinese Shan/Dai work. Such swords usually don't have a groove, for example, and their tips are thinner in thickness. But who knows, maybe someone from that minority purchased and altered the tip to their taste.

For comparison, here is an otherwise quite similar piece I had with a date on it. This was probably the original shape of yours, looking at the groove. I think yours is probably roughly from the same period.
https://mandarinmansion.com/item/burmese-dha-dated-1928

For reference I add a photo of a more typical Chinese Shan/Dai piece. Characteristic for this culture, spread over Burma and Yunnan, are the large garlic shaped pommel, the style of the silverwork, and the blade profile.

Peter

Ian · 10th September 2020, 10:30 AM

Hi Peter:

The politics of the Shan people and the Burmese Government are complicated, and many Shan who live in the Shan States of Burma have been seeking independence for a long time. They reside also in neighboring Yunnan and northern Thailand. As you note, the Shan are excellent silversmiths and they make fine blades as well. Typically, their blades have no fuller. The blades with fullers and koftgari work are Burman in origin, and the koftgari art was likely introduced to Burma by Indian craftsmen in the 19th C or perhaps earlier. [Longstanding trade between India and Burma is documented, and during the British occupation of Burma in the 19th and 20th C it was administered by the Viceroy of India.]

The dha examples with extensive silver koftgari often depict historical tales from Burmese mythology, while others show more abstract designs with flowing vines and leaves. The more elaborate versions have silver koftgari the whole length of the blade. These high quality swords are sometimes called Mandalay dha, after their assumed place of manufacture. They were produced mainly in the second half of the 19th C. and first 20–30 years of the 20th C.

Related to these fine swords are inferior examples featuring brass-covered hilts and scabbards that appeared in the early 20th C. Early examples were fair quality but they quickly deteriorated into cheap tourist items. They have coarser koftgari work and the blades are of poor quality, often untempered--these are entirely for display and are sometimes referred to as "story dha." Examples of these inferior forms show up online fairly regularly.

Attached are pictures of two high quality, 19th C dha with silver koftgari work that were exhibited in the Museum of Macau's History of Steel.

.

7th September 2020, 09:14 AM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,253	They also came in pointy. Like mine below: (see also the other point types chart) Attached Images

7th September 2020, 09:29 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,253	Just for interest - an earlier form, the Ayutthayan (Thai) Daab/Dha. The city was destroyed by the Burmese in 1787, so these types were earlier, from a time when they were actually used in battle. Unusual 'yelman' at the point. I have one like it. Very well-balanced and an excellent sturdy weapon. These are in a museum in Thailand. The Dha's long grip is to balance the blade, they are a one handed weapon, tho a two handed coup-de-grace was occasionally used. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 7th September 2020 at 09:54 AM.

10th September 2020, 08:41 AM	#6
Peter Dekker Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Kingdom of the Netherlands Posts: 64	I agree that it is probably reshaped. The Chinese Shan/Dai minority also made them with this profile from the get-go, but the rest of the dha is not typical Chinese Shan/Dai work. Such swords usually don't have a groove, for example, and their tips are thinner in thickness. But who knows, maybe someone from that minority purchased and altered the tip to their taste. For comparison, here is an otherwise quite similar piece I had with a date on it. This was probably the original shape of yours, looking at the groove. I think yours is probably roughly from the same period. https://mandarinmansion.com/item/burmese-dha-dated-1928 For reference I add a photo of a more typical Chinese Shan/Dai piece. Characteristic for this culture, spread over Burma and Yunnan, are the large garlic shaped pommel, the style of the silverwork, and the blade profile. Peter Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 10th September 2020 at 08:57 AM. Reason: Reduced size of attached picture

10th September 2020, 10:30 AM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,480	Hi Peter: The politics of the Shan people and the Burmese Government are complicated, and many Shan who live in the Shan States of Burma have been seeking independence for a long time. They reside also in neighboring Yunnan and northern Thailand. As you note, the Shan are excellent silversmiths and they make fine blades as well. Typically, their blades have no fuller. The blades with fullers and koftgari work are Burman in origin, and the koftgari art was likely introduced to Burma by Indian craftsmen in the 19th C or perhaps earlier. [Longstanding trade between India and Burma is documented, and during the British occupation of Burma in the 19th and 20th C it was administered by the Viceroy of India.] The dha examples with extensive silver koftgari often depict historical tales from Burmese mythology, while others show more abstract designs with flowing vines and leaves. The more elaborate versions have silver koftgari the whole length of the blade. These high quality swords are sometimes called Mandalay dha, after their assumed place of manufacture. They were produced mainly in the second half of the 19th C. and first 20–30 years of the 20th C. Related to these fine swords are inferior examples featuring brass-covered hilts and scabbards that appeared in the early 20th C. Early examples were fair quality but they quickly deteriorated into cheap tourist items. They have coarser koftgari work and the blades are of poor quality, often untempered--these are entirely for display and are sometimes referred to as "story dha." Examples of these inferior forms show up online fairly regularly. Attached are pictures of two high quality, 19th C dha with silver koftgari work that were exhibited in the Museum of Macau's History of Steel. . Attached Images

7th September 2020, 12:13 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,253	It's what the newspaper real estate classifieds call 'a nice little fixer-upper'.

7th September 2020, 05:42 PM	#5
JeffS Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 441	Thank you for clearing up the use question for me, it has been nagging me for awhile! Also interesting about the Husa. They are selling impressive looking watered steel blades with distinct hamon on Ebay, so apparently the tradition is going strong. If reworked, the tip on the dha is very cleanly executed and nicely radiused.