Caravaggio - paintings of armor and edged weapons 1590s-1610

shayde78 · 21st August 2020, 09:35 PM

Beheading of John the Baptist; c. 1607/1608

Another biblical scene, another beheading. I think Alix from Clockwork Orange once spoke of the scope of violence in that 'Good Book'.

Anyway, although the details of the sword are not shown, I find interesting the depiction of how a knife would be carried in the small of the back and could be easily drawn, probably by either the right or left hand, as needed.

Also, as there is often some overlap between those of us who collect arms and those who have an interest in old keys and locks, the key ring at the one figure's waist might hold interest for some.

shayde78 · 21st August 2020, 09:43 PM

Portrait of Maltese Knight Antonio Martelli; c. 1608

This portrait had been thought, until recently, to be another depiction of Alof de Wignacourt. However, it is now believed to be another knight of Malta. I cannot find much information on this individual.

That said, there is a nice, working-man's rapier hilt shown. I especially like that one can glean a little of the proportions of the hilt compared to the subject's hand.

shayde78 · 21st August 2020, 09:49 PM

The Martyrdom of St. Ursula; c. 1610

There is some debate if this or the next painting represents Caravaggio's final work. Since it is not firmly established, I place this as the penultimate piece.

Ursula was shot with an arrow when she refused to marry her captor, the King of the Huns. The time of the scenario depicted was c. 383 CE. I'm not sure how much license was taken with the armor, but it is still shows the interesting interplay between the armored and non-armored elements of a person's wardrobe in the early 1600s.

shayde78 · 21st August 2020, 09:57 PM

David with the Head of Goliath; c. 1609/1610

Here we see Caravaggio revisit the subject of David's triumph over the giant Goliath. As I said in the previous post, there is some dispute as to this or the St. Ursula painting being his final work. However, since Caravaggio once again used this opportunity to paint a self-portrait of himself as the vanquished Philistine, I thought it fitting to close out with his portrayal of his own mortality. The artist died, possibly of being poisoned in 1610.

The sword held by David, which following the narrative was Goliath's sword, is a robust blade in with an interesting swept hilt. One can even make out the hints of an inscription in the fuller. It reminds me of when I post pictures on here and you all ask for clearer photos! You can almost make out what is written, but not quite. Still, it is a good picture to close out with because it shows that Caravaggio either had a great familiarity with such weapons and/or had access to such examples to use as props in his sittings. Either way, it speaks to the faithfulness with which he captured details.

shayde78 · 21st August 2020, 10:01 PM

And that's all of them, as far as I can tell. I would love it if anyone could advise if I missed some works. To be honest, I almost forgot to include 'Cardsharps', which was perhaps the painting that made me want to start this thread in the first place! So it is entirely likely I missed other examples.

I am eager to hear your thoughts and impressions. I know the dozen, or so, paintings won't merit much conversation, but my hope is that this can serve as a reference for folks who browse the forums in an effort to attribute a date and locale for their pieces. If you happen to own something from Rome in the last decade of the 16th and first decade of the 17th centuries, maybe this will prove useful

Jim McDougall · 22nd August 2020, 02:47 AM

Great thread Shayde, and good to see the interest in classic art as a medium in identifying the period of use of certain forms and the elements of the hilts.
Naturally there is always the caution with 'license' and use of contemporary examples placed in historic periods of long before, such as Rembrandt using modern ethnographic weapons in Biblical scenes, not the case here obviously but just noting in art used in this way.

As Carvaggio was an avid brawler and duelist he was quite familiar with the weaponry around in his time (1571-1610) and given his penchant for detail it would seem that he would portray these accurately.
As always, many forms remained around for long periods and often as heirlooms, so the notion of 'antiquated' forms being present, even with the more current types in the same context.

It seems I recall reading about Rembrandt's "Night Watch" painting, the militia unit depicted is noted to be using 'antiquated' types of guns etc. Naturally the painting (not actually titled 'Night Watch', but the name of the town guard unit) faiithfully showed the heirloom or older types of weapon the men used. They of course furnished thier own arms.

As AVB Norman ("The Rapier and the Small sword", 1980) noted in his outstanding work which he used art work (mostly portraits) to establish date range for various hilt styles, portraits tended to be more reliable as the subject typically wore his own weapon. Though not infallible, it seemed pretty well placed.

It seems that his instances of the gruesome beheadings etc he was reacting to the sentence of same leveled at him as a sentence for one of his crimes in brawling, which gave legal permission to anyone to carry out on him if found.

On another note, elements of armor much as with weapons were often mixed together irrespective of proper matching obviously, as damaged or unserviceable were replaced with what was available.
It was not at all unusual in these historic times for men to be outfitted in incongruent assemblage of pieces, perhaps even to the degree of Cervantes' "Don Quixote".

These works of art give us wonderful context for the weapons often in our collections, adding so much to appreciation.

corrado26 · 22nd August 2020, 07:59 AM

Looking at these masterly painted works of art I wonder why the artist preferred painting these terrible and cruel themes instead of themes of beauty or daily life. If this has been the normal sight of things in the 15th and 16th century - cruelty, blood, pain, torture, this was a really bad time for mankind. The more as people were prepared to give lots of money for this kind of art. I am really glad not to have been born in these centuries.

21st August 2020, 09:35 PM	#1
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Beheading of John the Baptist; c. 1607/1608 Beheading of John the Baptist; c. 1607/1608 Another biblical scene, another beheading. I think Alix from Clockwork Orange once spoke of the scope of violence in that 'Good Book'. Anyway, although the details of the sword are not shown, I find interesting the depiction of how a knife would be carried in the small of the back and could be easily drawn, probably by either the right or left hand, as needed. Also, as there is often some overlap between those of us who collect arms and those who have an interest in old keys and locks, the key ring at the one figure's waist might hold interest for some. Attached Images

21st August 2020, 09:43 PM	#2
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Portrait of Maltese Knight Antonio Martelli; c. 1608 Portrait of Maltese Knight Antonio Martelli; c. 1608 This portrait had been thought, until recently, to be another depiction of Alof de Wignacourt. However, it is now believed to be another knight of Malta. I cannot find much information on this individual. That said, there is a nice, working-man's rapier hilt shown. I especially like that one can glean a little of the proportions of the hilt compared to the subject's hand. Attached Images

21st August 2020, 09:49 PM	#3
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	The Martyrdom of St. Ursula; c. 1609/1610 The Martyrdom of St. Ursula; c. 1610 There is some debate if this or the next painting represents Caravaggio's final work. Since it is not firmly established, I place this as the penultimate piece. Ursula was shot with an arrow when she refused to marry her captor, the King of the Huns. The time of the scenario depicted was c. 383 CE. I'm not sure how much license was taken with the armor, but it is still shows the interesting interplay between the armored and non-armored elements of a person's wardrobe in the early 1600s. Attached Images

21st August 2020, 09:57 PM	#4
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	David with the Head of Goliath; c. 1609/1610 David with the Head of Goliath; c. 1609/1610 Here we see Caravaggio revisit the subject of David's triumph over the giant Goliath. As I said in the previous post, there is some dispute as to this or the St. Ursula painting being his final work. However, since Caravaggio once again used this opportunity to paint a self-portrait of himself as the vanquished Philistine, I thought it fitting to close out with his portrayal of his own mortality. The artist died, possibly of being poisoned in 1610. The sword held by David, which following the narrative was Goliath's sword, is a robust blade in with an interesting swept hilt. One can even make out the hints of an inscription in the fuller. It reminds me of when I post pictures on here and you all ask for clearer photos! You can almost make out what is written, but not quite. Still, it is a good picture to close out with because it shows that Caravaggio either had a great familiarity with such weapons and/or had access to such examples to use as props in his sittings. Either way, it speaks to the faithfulness with which he captured details. Attached Images Last edited by shayde78; 21st August 2020 at 10:10 PM.

21st August 2020, 10:01 PM	#5
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	And that's all of them, as far as I can tell. I would love it if anyone could advise if I missed some works. To be honest, I almost forgot to include 'Cardsharps', which was perhaps the painting that made me want to start this thread in the first place! So it is entirely likely I missed other examples. I am eager to hear your thoughts and impressions. I know the dozen, or so, paintings won't merit much conversation, but my hope is that this can serve as a reference for folks who browse the forums in an effort to attribute a date and locale for their pieces. If you happen to own something from Rome in the last decade of the 16th and first decade of the 17th centuries, maybe this will prove useful

22nd August 2020, 02:47 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,464	Great thread Shayde, and good to see the interest in classic art as a medium in identifying the period of use of certain forms and the elements of the hilts. Naturally there is always the caution with 'license' and use of contemporary examples placed in historic periods of long before, such as Rembrandt using modern ethnographic weapons in Biblical scenes, not the case here obviously but just noting in art used in this way. As Carvaggio was an avid brawler and duelist he was quite familiar with the weaponry around in his time (1571-1610) and given his penchant for detail it would seem that he would portray these accurately. As always, many forms remained around for long periods and often as heirlooms, so the notion of 'antiquated' forms being present, even with the more current types in the same context. It seems I recall reading about Rembrandt's "Night Watch" painting, the militia unit depicted is noted to be using 'antiquated' types of guns etc. Naturally the painting (not actually titled 'Night Watch', but the name of the town guard unit) faiithfully showed the heirloom or older types of weapon the men used. They of course furnished thier own arms. As AVB Norman ("The Rapier and the Small sword", 1980) noted in his outstanding work which he used art work (mostly portraits) to establish date range for various hilt styles, portraits tended to be more reliable as the subject typically wore his own weapon. Though not infallible, it seemed pretty well placed. It seems that his instances of the gruesome beheadings etc he was reacting to the sentence of same leveled at him as a sentence for one of his crimes in brawling, which gave legal permission to anyone to carry out on him if found. On another note, elements of armor much as with weapons were often mixed together irrespective of proper matching obviously, as damaged or unserviceable were replaced with what was available. It was not at all unusual in these historic times for men to be outfitted in incongruent assemblage of pieces, perhaps even to the degree of Cervantes' "Don Quixote". These works of art give us wonderful context for the weapons often in our collections, adding so much to appreciation.

22nd August 2020, 07:59 AM	#7
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,237	Looking at these masterly painted works of art I wonder why the artist preferred painting these terrible and cruel themes instead of themes of beauty or daily life. If this has been the normal sight of things in the 15th and 16th century - cruelty, blood, pain, torture, this was a really bad time for mankind. The more as people were prepared to give lots of money for this kind of art. I am really glad not to have been born in these centuries.