BARUNG TAUSUG?

Sajen · 19th August 2020, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

Detlef, I believe that particular blade profile did not exist before the 1970s. The break at the pommel of the OP's barung may not necessarily be due to age; bunti can crack when improperly handled either during pommel creation or handling (especially with a crack as large as that one). So far the age cracks I've encountered on pre-1900 bunti aren't as large yet as to allow the insertion of a coin.

Hi Xas,

Hope it's not too rude to say that you compare an apple with a potato, the pommel of the OP is rather good carved, the pommel from the example you posted is very crude and simple carved, the ferrule from the OP seems to be from silver (I guess, Yves can you confirm??), your example seems to has one from aluminium, the MOP inlays at the scabbard from the OP are from very good quality carving, yours are very crude.
The only point is the blade profile but like Ian I would like to see better pictures in a different angle from the OP.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 19th August 2020, 06:00 PM

comparison

xasterix · 19th August 2020, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Xas,

Hope it's not too rude to say that you compare an apple with a potato, the pommel of the OP is rather good carved, the pommel from the example you posted is very crude and simple carved, the ferrule from the OP seems to be from silver (I guess, Yves can you confirm??), your example seems to has one from aluminium, the MOP inlays at the scabbard from the OP are from very good quality carving, yours are very crude.
The only point is the blade profile but like Ian I would like to see better pictures in a different angle from the OP.

Regards,
Detlef

No offense taken; my sample is indeed more crude, but I still believe it's from the same time period as OP's post. The variability in width of the blade is also noted in both barungs; however I believe they are still similar in terms of blade profile configuration. It's the only picture I have on hand, but I've handled others that are of similar build yet as better quality in terms of aesthetics (closer to OP's sample).

Like all artisan-based products, there are levels of quality; but some indicators remain consistent despite aesthetic differences.

David · 19th August 2020, 11:48 PM

So Xasterix, but i see two rather different blade profiles here. The differences are subtle, but clear to me.

Sajen · 20th August 2020, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

So Xasterix, but i see two rather different blade profiles here. The differences are subtle, but clear to me.

Hello David,

We really would need to see pictures from both (Yves and Xas) barungs in a similar angle like my example is shown.
It's rather difficult for me since they are not shown from up. I've played with pictures from both pieces but come to no conclusion.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 20th August 2020, 01:14 AM

This is useuable! But need one from Yves to compare.

Ian · 20th August 2020, 01:44 AM

Perhaps Xas is referring to the wrap on the scabbard. This appears to be Yakan rather than Tausug. I had not looked carefully enough at the scabbard fittings. Part of the problem with very dark pictures is missing subtle but important features. Here's a better look at the scabbard and its wraps.

.

tanaruz · 20th August 2020, 02:28 AM

Hello friends,

Additional pics.

Note: the ferrule is silver.

Kind regards

Yves

Ian · 20th August 2020, 07:22 AM

Well, this is interesting. We have three similar barung, but perhaps not so similar. With roughly comparable pictures, we can put them side by side and see how they differ.

In the accompanying composite picture, top to bottom, we have Yves' original post, followed by an example posted from Yaz, and lastly a similar barung of Detlef. On each blade I have drawn a vertical white line halfway between the hilt and the tip. In addition, I have tried to define with a black arrow where each blade is at its widest point. It is apparent that the top (Yves) and bottom (Detlef) swords have a similar geometry: the widest point lies to the left (i.e., towards the hilt end) of the midpoint of the blade. The example of Yaz is different: the widest point of the blade lies to the right (i.e., towards the tip) of the blade. Yaz's blade also has a much straighter spine than the other two.

Yaz has identified his barung as Yakan, and I agree that Yakan blades (at least post WWII) have straighter spines and are weighted more towards the tip than are Sulu (Tausug, Samal) blades. The other two blades appear more consistent with Sulu blades, having their widest points closer to the hilt.

The hilts on the top and bottom examples also look Sulu, but I would need to have them in hand and inspect them more closely before excluding a Yakan origin. The Yakan coverings on the scabbards of Yves' and Yaz's examples has been noted already. Detlef's is less clear because there is no textile present and his scabbard is wrapped entirely in fine rattan.

So, accepting that Yaz has shown us a typical recent Yakan example, and the other two swords have different blades, then are the others perhaps Sulu blades in Yakan dress?

I do think that Yves and Detlef's swords look older than 1970, although the scabbards could be that vintage or later.

.

Sajen · 20th August 2020, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

No offense taken; my sample is indeed more crude, but I still believe it's from the same time period as OP's post. The variability in width of the blade is also noted in both barungs; however I believe they are still similar in terms of blade profile configuration. It's the only picture I have on hand, but I've handled others that are of similar build yet as better quality in terms of aesthetics (closer to OP's sample).

Like all artisan-based products, there are levels of quality; but some indicators remain consistent despite aesthetic differences.

Fine!

You may not know that I have a similar example to the OP in my collection ( in my opinion, I can be wrong), the scabbard which come with also has had once MOP in up and down, blade shape could be similar (?) and I think that both from a similar time frame, the OP may be a little bit younger. I would place both around WWII. The ferrules are by my one from German silver or white brass and the blade is laminated.
I really would like to know if the ferrule from the OP is silver. Silver by barungs in this quality after WWII I never have seen!

And laminated blades after this time I am also not aware of. So it would be also good to know if the OP has a laminated blade.
See here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=restore

Regards,
Detlef

19th August 2020, 06:00 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,269	comparison Attached Images

20th August 2020, 01:14 AM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,269	This is useuable! But need one from Yves to compare. Attached Images

20th August 2020, 01:44 AM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Perhaps Xas is referring to the wrap on the scabbard. This appears to be Yakan rather than Tausug. I had not looked carefully enough at the scabbard fittings. Part of the problem with very dark pictures is missing subtle but important features. Here's a better look at the scabbard and its wraps. . Attached Images

20th August 2020, 02:28 AM	#8
tanaruz Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 276	BARUNG TAUSUG? Hello friends, Additional pics. Note: the ferrule is silver. Kind regards Yves Attached Images

20th August 2020, 07:22 AM	#9
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Well, this is interesting. We have three similar barung, but perhaps not so similar. With roughly comparable pictures, we can put them side by side and see how they differ. In the accompanying composite picture, top to bottom, we have Yves' original post, followed by an example posted from Yaz, and lastly a similar barung of Detlef. On each blade I have drawn a vertical white line halfway between the hilt and the tip. In addition, I have tried to define with a black arrow where each blade is at its widest point. It is apparent that the top (Yves) and bottom (Detlef) swords have a similar geometry: the widest point lies to the left (i.e., towards the hilt end) of the midpoint of the blade. The example of Yaz is different: the widest point of the blade lies to the right (i.e., towards the tip) of the blade. Yaz's blade also has a much straighter spine than the other two. Yaz has identified his barung as Yakan, and I agree that Yakan blades (at least post WWII) have straighter spines and are weighted more towards the tip than are Sulu (Tausug, Samal) blades. The other two blades appear more consistent with Sulu blades, having their widest points closer to the hilt. The hilts on the top and bottom examples also look Sulu, but I would need to have them in hand and inspect them more closely before excluding a Yakan origin. The Yakan coverings on the scabbards of Yves' and Yaz's examples has been noted already. Detlef's is less clear because there is no textile present and his scabbard is wrapped entirely in fine rattan. So, accepting that Yaz has shown us a typical recent Yakan example, and the other two swords have different blades, then are the others perhaps Sulu blades in Yakan dress? I do think that Yves and Detlef's swords look older than 1970, although the scabbards could be that vintage or later. . Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 20th August 2020 at 07:34 AM.

19th August 2020, 11:48 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,228	So Xasterix, but i see two rather different blade profiles here. The differences are subtle, but clear to me.