BARUNG TAUSUG?

Sajen · 18th August 2020, 07:17 PM

I guess that the scabbard is much younger as the barung. Yves, is the ferrule from silver?
Xas, look to the pommel, it has an age crack and in this form and patination I would say that the sword is much older as end of 20th century.

Regards,
Detlef

Battara · 19th August 2020, 12:26 AM

As I look at this again, I find the blade profile is strange and not traditional, unless this is a trick of the camera angle.............

Ian · 19th August 2020, 12:43 AM

I thought it was the angle of the picture that made the blade look a little odd. Buy Xasterix may be right, that this is not Sulu. Yves, can you give us a picture taken directly over the blade?

xasterix · 19th August 2020, 08:14 AM

Here's a similar sample with 80s provenance; it's already been halfway restored, it came from a lot of rust and dirt. As you can see, if I tilt the camera angle a little, it directly resembles the OP's blade profile. Even the broken 'beak' is consistent here; the textile is just a different pattern. MOP is also present in this 80s sample, just of a different style.

Detlef, I believe that particular blade profile did not exist before the 1970s. The break at the pommel of the OP's barung may not necessarily be due to age; bunti can crack when improperly handled either during pommel creation or handling (especially with a crack as large as that one). So far the age cracks I've encountered on pre-1900 bunti aren't as large yet as to allow the insertion of a coin.

Ian · 19th August 2020, 09:48 AM

Hi Xas,

I think your blade's profile is a little more extreme than in the OP. The spine is almost straight and the belly of the blade is a long way forward of the midpoint of the edge. The OP shows a more curved spine and the belly about midpoint of the blade. Also, the hilt is more crudely carved and the kakatua is less refined on yours, while the quality of the MOP carving is much better on the OP. Even allowing for differences in quality, I thought the hilt and its punto looked fairly typical Sulu work. Let's see if Yves can give us better pics of the blade.

Ian.

Sajen · 19th August 2020, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

Detlef, I believe that particular blade profile did not exist before the 1970s. The break at the pommel of the OP's barung may not necessarily be due to age; bunti can crack when improperly handled either during pommel creation or handling (especially with a crack as large as that one). So far the age cracks I've encountered on pre-1900 bunti aren't as large yet as to allow the insertion of a coin.

Hi Xas,

Hope it's not too rude to say that you compare an apple with a potato, the pommel of the OP is rather good carved, the pommel from the example you posted is very crude and simple carved, the ferrule from the OP seems to be from silver (I guess, Yves can you confirm??), your example seems to has one from aluminium, the MOP inlays at the scabbard from the OP are from very good quality carving, yours are very crude.
The only point is the blade profile but like Ian I would like to see better pictures in a different angle from the OP.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 19th August 2020, 06:00 PM

comparison

xasterix · 19th August 2020, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Xas,

Hope it's not too rude to say that you compare an apple with a potato, the pommel of the OP is rather good carved, the pommel from the example you posted is very crude and simple carved, the ferrule from the OP seems to be from silver (I guess, Yves can you confirm??), your example seems to has one from aluminium, the MOP inlays at the scabbard from the OP are from very good quality carving, yours are very crude.
The only point is the blade profile but like Ian I would like to see better pictures in a different angle from the OP.

Regards,
Detlef

No offense taken; my sample is indeed more crude, but I still believe it's from the same time period as OP's post. The variability in width of the blade is also noted in both barungs; however I believe they are still similar in terms of blade profile configuration. It's the only picture I have on hand, but I've handled others that are of similar build yet as better quality in terms of aesthetics (closer to OP's sample).

Like all artisan-based products, there are levels of quality; but some indicators remain consistent despite aesthetic differences.

David · 19th August 2020, 11:48 PM

So Xasterix, but i see two rather different blade profiles here. The differences are subtle, but clear to me.

Sajen · 20th August 2020, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

No offense taken; my sample is indeed more crude, but I still believe it's from the same time period as OP's post. The variability in width of the blade is also noted in both barungs; however I believe they are still similar in terms of blade profile configuration. It's the only picture I have on hand, but I've handled others that are of similar build yet as better quality in terms of aesthetics (closer to OP's sample).

Like all artisan-based products, there are levels of quality; but some indicators remain consistent despite aesthetic differences.

Fine!

You may not know that I have a similar example to the OP in my collection ( in my opinion, I can be wrong), the scabbard which come with also has had once MOP in up and down, blade shape could be similar (?) and I think that both from a similar time frame, the OP may be a little bit younger. I would place both around WWII. The ferrules are by my one from German silver or white brass and the blade is laminated.
I really would like to know if the ferrule from the OP is silver. Silver by barungs in this quality after WWII I never have seen!

And laminated blades after this time I am also not aware of. So it would be also good to know if the OP has a laminated blade.
See here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=restore

Regards,
Detlef

19th August 2020, 08:14 AM	#4
xasterix Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 702	Here's a similar sample with 80s provenance; it's already been halfway restored, it came from a lot of rust and dirt. As you can see, if I tilt the camera angle a little, it directly resembles the OP's blade profile. Even the broken 'beak' is consistent here; the textile is just a different pattern. MOP is also present in this 80s sample, just of a different style. Detlef, I believe that particular blade profile did not exist before the 1970s. The break at the pommel of the OP's barung may not necessarily be due to age; bunti can crack when improperly handled either during pommel creation or handling (especially with a crack as large as that one). So far the age cracks I've encountered on pre-1900 bunti aren't as large yet as to allow the insertion of a coin. Attached Images

19th August 2020, 06:00 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,360	comparison Attached Images

18th August 2020, 07:17 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,360	I guess that the scabbard is much younger as the barung. Yves, is the ferrule from silver? Xas, look to the pommel, it has an age crack and in this form and patination I would say that the sword is much older as end of 20th century. Regards, Detlef

19th August 2020, 12:26 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,339	As I look at this again, I find the blade profile is strange and not traditional, unless this is a trick of the camera angle.............

19th August 2020, 12:43 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,481	I thought it was the angle of the picture that made the blade look a little odd. Buy Xasterix may be right, that this is not Sulu. Yves, can you give us a picture taken directly over the blade?

19th August 2020, 09:48 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,481	Hi Xas, I think your blade's profile is a little more extreme than in the OP. The spine is almost straight and the belly of the blade is a long way forward of the midpoint of the edge. The OP shows a more curved spine and the belly about midpoint of the blade. Also, the hilt is more crudely carved and the kakatua is less refined on yours, while the quality of the MOP carving is much better on the OP. Even allowing for differences in quality, I thought the hilt and its punto looked fairly typical Sulu work. Let's see if Yves can give us better pics of the blade. Ian.

19th August 2020, 11:48 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,241	So Xasterix, but i see two rather different blade profiles here. The differences are subtle, but clear to me.