A cup hilt sword ... atypical, for your comments.

Philip · 31st July 2020, 10:31 PM

Parabens, Nando!

A truly rare blade form (half waved from the forte, straight towards tip) in a European context. Fairly common, however, among south Philippine kalis (kris) short swords, that configuration called kalis taluseko.

Jim: Re your comment on flamberge blades, I think that there is a functional component as well. When used for the thrust, the tissue damage from the puncture wound is more extensive due to the lateral waves. Greater shock and blood loss. That's why a number of central European boar swords (not spears) also have wavy blades, broad enough so the edges can be sharpened. And this is also held to be the rationale behind the wavy blades on many keris daggers of SE Asia as well.

ulfberth · 1st August 2020, 12:12 PM

That is a nice sword indeed especially the blade I to would place it as 17th C ! There is an almost identical one in the Museu Militar in Lisbon that one is described as 18th C, perhaps these are late 17th C early 18th C ? It would be interesting to find out when the first one's emerged to me this is typical Portuguese . Although I collect 16th and 17th C I would not mind having this one in my collection , perhaps Fernando will give me a call around Christmas

kind regards
Ulfberth

fernando · 1st August 2020, 06:53 PM

Thank you Filipe,
Duly noted on the further efficacy of waved blades. So true that i favor 'forensics' quicker than 'esoterics'. Also the author of AS ARMAS e OS BARÕES prefers to explain the purpose of these blades as having a multiple cutting area. In fact he shows three of such examples in his book which, together with a couple i know that exist in a fellow collector's collection, make me infer that these blades were more directed to thrusting efficiency than to please the Gods. But of course that could have taken place in a much earlier period. Interesting also to notice that more than one technique was used to shape tese flaming blades. As i once heard, the undulations may be applied by either filing the steel after the blade is made or make them while forging it.

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fernando · 1st August 2020, 07:11 PM

Thank you so much for the kind words, Dirk. And don't loose hope; Christmas is not so far away ... neither is Belgium

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Thank you also for posting that nice sword in the Museu Militar. Oh, i wish i could read the inscription on the blade. Do you have a picture with a higher resolution ?

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ulfberth · 1st August 2020, 07:26 PM

Sure Fernando, here you go

fernando · 1st August 2020, 08:12 PM

Thank you so much, Dirk,
No doubt this one is from the 18th century, consistent with the King mentioned in the caption (Dom Jão V, reigned 1706-1750). A precious detail; the grip is covered with tressed horsehair.

1st August 2020, 12:12 PM	#2
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 435	That is a nice sword indeed especially the blade I to would place it as 17th C ! There is an almost identical one in the Museu Militar in Lisbon that one is described as 18th C, perhaps these are late 17th C early 18th C ? It would be interesting to find out when the first one's emerged to me this is typical Portuguese . Although I collect 16th and 17th C I would not mind having this one in my collection , perhaps Fernando will give me a call around Christmas kind regards Ulfberth Attached Images

1st August 2020, 06:53 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you Filipe, Duly noted on the further efficacy of waved blades. So true that i favor 'forensics' quicker than 'esoterics'. Also the author of AS ARMAS e OS BARÕES prefers to explain the purpose of these blades as having a multiple cutting area. In fact he shows three of such examples in his book which, together with a couple i know that exist in a fellow collector's collection, make me infer that these blades were more directed to thrusting efficiency than to please the Gods. But of course that could have taken place in a much earlier period. Interesting also to notice that more than one technique was used to shape tese flaming blades. As i once heard, the undulations may be applied by either filing the steel after the blade is made or make them while forging it. . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 1st August 2020 at 08:24 PM.

1st August 2020, 07:11 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	correction Thank you so much for the kind words, Dirk. And don't loose hope; Christmas is not so far away ... neither is Belgium . Thank you also for posting that nice sword in the Museu Militar. Oh, i wish i could read the inscription on the blade. Do you have a picture with a higher resolution ? . Last edited by fernando; 1st August 2020 at 08:25 PM.

1st August 2020, 07:26 PM	#5
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 435	Sure Fernando, here you go Attached Images

31st July 2020, 10:31 PM	#1
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Parabens, Nando! A truly rare blade form (half waved from the forte, straight towards tip) in a European context. Fairly common, however, among south Philippine kalis (kris) short swords, that configuration called kalis taluseko. Jim: Re your comment on flamberge blades, I think that there is a functional component as well. When used for the thrust, the tissue damage from the puncture wound is more extensive due to the lateral waves. Greater shock and blood loss. That's why a number of central European boar swords (not spears) also have wavy blades, broad enough so the edges can be sharpened. And this is also held to be the rationale behind the wavy blades on many keris daggers of SE Asia as well.

1st August 2020, 08:12 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you so much, Dirk, No doubt this one is from the 18th century, consistent with the King mentioned in the caption (Dom Jão V, reigned 1706-1750). A precious detail; the grip is covered with tressed horsehair.