Swords of Jolo Sulu 3

[jamesj975]

The first blade everyone is looking at is in fact one piece. The locals say that the two piece blade is usually older than one hundred years old. Wilke explained that there have been one piece blades found here that did date back to a hundred years ago, but were not very common. Hard to tell. Dan wanted me to thank you all for your input. He is heading home for a while but may return soon. I also appreciate the information I'm getting for you guys. Thank you.

[Spunjer]

i've heard of one piece blades that are more than 100 years as well, but those ones are maranao...

[D Wilke]

Back home and up on line again. While I know that the rule seems to be seperate gangya = pre 1930, however I got the sense from most of those that I talked to in Sulu reference these that the seperate gangya was more of a guarantee of it being older, however they felt that the one piece blade was also made by many prior to the magic 1930 mark also. On at least two occasions I had individuals show me one piece kalis that they claimed were in their families for 5 or 6 generations. Now while the Tausug are not above stretching the truth, they are very particular about two things, reciprical gift-giving and their family trees. I should mention that neither of the two blades were offered for sale.

Just another quick note before I forget - the museum in Jolo is a bust for swords, they only had two and both were newer and in abysmal shape. The nicest weapons shown were pictures from the Field museum collection. Not even a spear, shield, or barung. Might have to donate one my mine when the time comes.
Dan

[D Wilke]

Sam and Jack, please post the photo's of OB's kris (beautiful lamination lines). They're in the My pictures folder.
Dan

[Spunjer]

While I know that the rule seems to be seperate gangya = pre 1930, however I got the sense from most of those that I talked to in Sulu reference these that the seperate gangya was more of a guarantee of it being older, however they felt that the one piece blade was also made by many prior to the magic 1930 mark also.

thank you for that very interesting tidbit, dan. you were/are indeed in a unique postion to clarify a lot of what has been considered as half guess around here. looking forward to your future comments.

Just another quick note before I forget - the museum in Jolo is a bust for swords, they only had two and both were newer and in abysmal shape. The nicest weapons shown were pictures from the Field museum collection. Not even a spear, shield, or barung. Might have to donate one my mine when the time comes.

that's a shame! i believe the university of mindanao in lanao has the most extensive collection of moro weapons in mindanao, if not, the whole archipelago. i remember the national museum had only 4 or 5 swords.

[kai]

Hello Dan,

While I know that the rule seems to be seperate gangya = pre 1930, however I got the sense from most of those that I talked to in Sulu reference these that the seperate gangya was more of a guarantee of it being older, however they felt that the one piece blade was also made by many prior to the magic 1930 mark also.

A while back it was stated in this forum that there are still kris with separate gangya being made - not only in Indonesia but also in the Sulu archipelago. (This observation coming from Carlos if I remember correctly.) Could you folks on Jolo try to get further info along these lines?

While Stone's rule of thumb (separate gangya: likely pre-1930; integral gangya: most likely 20th c.) seems to work out ok most of the time for Filipino kris, we apparently have to take into account exceptions in both categories.

I still wonder how this integral gangya syndrome could spread that fast throughout Moroland (in just a few decades). I'd have expected a much more patchy/localized development with older pandays clinging to the traditional design until their demise...

Regards,
Kai

[Bill]

Wolviex, on the old forum, posted a one piece gangya from 1882: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002456.html

[Battara]

Originally Posted by D Wilke

Just another quick note before I forget - the museum in Jolo is a bust for swords, they only had two and both were newer and in abysmal shape. The nicest weapons shown were pictures from the Field museum collection. Not even a spear, shield, or barung. Might have to donate one my mine when the time comes.
Dan

Not shocking at all since most of those in the US were battlefield pickups and that there are more older PI kris in the US than in the PI.

[BluErf]

Oh, I see the line now... Thanks!