Great Qama

[Battara]

One of the best Georgian blades I have ever seen! Thanks for posting!

[Gonzoadler]

Hello,
I have thought about ariels and Oliver Pinchots opinion that the dagger could be made in Daghestan or Tiflis. I found this map in the internet (see also the link) and if the dagger has been made at the early 19th century these areas were a part of Persia at this time.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadsch...an_1900-en.png

In this case it is not wrong to say "it's (northwest) persian", but it is also right to say "it's from Tiflis or Daghestan"
That would explain the persian decor and the similarity of the blade to georgian examples. Maybe the decor was made by another artist than the blade.
But I think the customer was a Persian who maybe lived more in the south.

[Gonzoadler]

If it is allowed, here are the links of the only dagger I found which looks very similar to mine. I think the mountings are newer than the dagger and the blade was cleaned very extensively

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...kindjal-dagger

https://armsandantiques.com/products...us-blade-rd779

Regards
Robin

[Interested Party]

I don't think anyone is questioning Persian influence. Just in the current belief system Tiflis seems a reasonable attribution. I would love to see a book on Persian and Turkish blades of this type. Possibly world view and scholarship related to Persian Qamas would have been different if the 1979 revolution had not prevented the exchange of ideas in the region. Hopefully 30 years from now everyone will play nice and scholarship with flow across borders again.

The blade geometries are very different on these linked examples. Yours is what I had associated with earlier blades and a different technique of use. They are all gorgeous and I would be honored to own any of them. I liked the pomegranate on the sheath of the 2nd linked example, but I believe the sheaths don't help you argument. The style of the pomegranate I thought was associated with later Russian influence on the genre. The first linked sheath seems very solidly in the Kubatji/Dagestani tradition from the late nineteenth century. The second example's blade if I remember correctly had traces of duckheads on the koft a very Tiflis touch. All that said blades moved around the region, sometimes waiting many years to be mounted or were mounted successively for different owners. Often works were an amalgamation of several craftsmen often from different regions and traditions or people working outside their cultural traditions. So really the sky is the limit concerning the truth of production and the critic imposes their own bias upon what they see.... The knife being made for an Iranian, expat or otherwise, is as likely as anything else. Thankyou again for showing your collection and giving me the chance to play this game of attribution.

Attached are two plates from Rivkin's Caucasian Arms. That to me seem to be a similar style. though honestly I like yours better. Personal taste.

BTW did anyone else notice the first auction house had the blade backwards in its sheath. One of my pet peeves. It makes things sloppy and leads to dull blades.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

I don't think anyone is questioning Persian influence. Just in the current belief system Tiflis seems a reasonable attribution.

I do. And the map looks quite deceiving.

Persians tried to absorb Eastern Georgia for centuries, and invaded it repeatedly, sometimes being victorious, sometimes beaten. But they never made it a part of Persian Empire: Georgians were fiercely independent and their Christian faith resisted Moslem rule.

Persian military and political influence of Caucasus and Transcaucasia ended in 1801 by the entrance of Russia as a player, when it officially made Georgia as part of the Russian Empire. Persians tried to offer a feeble fight, but were beaten mercilessly and in 1813 they officially ceded any claims on Eastern Georgia and the entire Daghestan ( Golestan treaty). Thus, by the time this kindjal was created there was not a trace of Persian military or political influence or presence in that area ( see map).

Artistic, -yes, because art has no borders. But I have gone over Khorasani's book showing multiple examples of kindjals and sabers from major Iranian museums and there is nothing even remotely similar. On the other hand, there are multiple examples of similar decorative motives on Georgian weapons from that era. Moreover, the "almost wild damascus" of the flat parts of the blade and " Tiflis Zigzag" within the fullers is typically Georgian and has no analogies in Iran.

IMHO: pure Georgian, most likely Tiflis, second quarter of 19-th century.
And gorgeous.

[Interested Party]

[Gonzoadler]

Thank's to all for the previous comments.
@Interested Party
Thank you for the pictures from Rivkin's book which show the comparable daggers I searched for. The author also thinks that these daggers were made in Tiflis. Because a number of experts and collectors have this opinion, I accept this thesis. Rivkin also thinks that such blades were made between 1810 and 1830, I think so, too. Later Kindjals and Qamas from the second half of the 19th. century have no blades of this high quality.
@ariel
The persian influence is unquestionable and what do you think is the other influence your previous writer means than an artistic one?

I have one more question: Is anybody here in the forum who knows which flowers are pictured on the blade and the scabbard-mounting?
A very similar flower you can also see on the dagger in the first picture of post 29.

[Wootzo]

A very fine example of the early georgian Kindjal. 1830-1840 would be the probable period. In these times, there were a few artisans creating high-quality arms in the area. These are the types of daggers that made Tiflis famous at the time.

Same period as the great masters working in the area. Truly the "Golden Age" of Tiflis arms craftmanship. These style of decoration are very typical.

You should consider sending your dagger to Gotscha Lagidze for restoration in the Netherland.

[alex8765]

I vote for Georgian too.

[ariel]

I shall pass on your question re. images of flowers:
My wife had been exasperated with my ignorance in botany. She is sure that for me there are only 2 kinds of flowers: those with thorns are roses, those without - tulips:-(((((
I am absolutely the worst person to ask that question. Sorry....



As to it’s origin, I again see no Persian influence: IMHO it is purely Georgian.
Also, I do not see any reason for restoration; it is in a perfect shape.