Indian katar - why so expensive?

Oliver Pinchot · 24th May 2020, 10:03 PM

It's decorated in bubris or tiger stripes.
I didn't read the description but bidders probably assumed it has
some connection with Tipu Sultan.

RAMBA · 24th May 2020, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

It's decorated in bubris or tiger stripes.
I didn't read the description but bidders probably assumed it has
some connection with Tipu Sultan.

I suspect this is the answer. No attribution as such in the description but clearly bidders associated the tiger stripes on this katar with Tipu Sultan.

shayde78 · 25th May 2020, 02:55 AM

Any thoughts on the origin of the blade of the katar in question? Looks to be of possible European origin to my untrained eye. Scottish?
For the hammer price this piece realized, I was expecting a fine blade of wootz.

ariel · 27th May 2020, 02:54 AM

As to its price:
There was a study some years ago: professional economists wanted to know the relation of the actual worth to the final price at auction-like sales.
The bottom line: real worth of an auctioned object equals the average of all bids.
Based on this calculation, the winner did not seem to overpay excessively.

Jim McDougall · 27th May 2020, 04:05 AM

It has been my understanding that this design interpreted as 'bubris' or tiger stripes is actually the 'cintamani' design, an Ottoman motif, used in the Deccan in 17th c. and as this katar, predating Tipu Sultan and his father Haider Ali.
While this is of course a desirable katar, the presumption of Tipu connection surely fueled the resultant bid.

It seems the designs were a combining of the three dots, which I believe represented the dots of a panther, and symbolic for the Timurids, and the Ottoman design which do represent stripes and tiger of course.
While the 'cintamani' designs do align with similar shaped designs on some weapons claimed to be Tipu's, and the mechanical 'toy' tiger well known, it is of course somewhat established prior to his adopting of it, and in Deccani context.

Kubur · 27th May 2020, 01:44 PM

I support our favorite guru, it's an Ottoman Turkish design. In fact it is probably Seldjuk. This motive went to the Deccan through Iran.

https://www.amazon.com/Iran-Deccan-P.../dp/0253048915

The tiger-stripe a ‘chintamani’ design (the three circles). The tiger strips are in fact a kind of flower but I don't remember where I saw this.

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/445263

Here a book about these Ottoman textiles.

Bob A · 27th May 2020, 05:14 PM

I have a vague recollection of this design being associated with Timur (1335-1405), making it somewhat more ancient than otherwise noted. Sadly, I have no idea of the actual source of that recollection.

27th May 2020, 04:05 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	It has been my understanding that this design interpreted as 'bubris' or tiger stripes is actually the 'cintamani' design, an Ottoman motif, used in the Deccan in 17th c. and as this katar, predating Tipu Sultan and his father Haider Ali. While this is of course a desirable katar, the presumption of Tipu connection surely fueled the resultant bid. It seems the designs were a combining of the three dots, which I believe represented the dots of a panther, and symbolic for the Timurids, and the Ottoman design which do represent stripes and tiger of course. While the 'cintamani' designs do align with similar shaped designs on some weapons claimed to be Tipu's, and the mechanical 'toy' tiger well known, it is of course somewhat established prior to his adopting of it, and in Deccani context. Attached Images

27th May 2020, 01:44 PM	#6
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	I support our favorite guru, it's an Ottoman Turkish design. In fact it is probably Seldjuk. This motive went to the Deccan through Iran. https://www.amazon.com/Iran-Deccan-P.../dp/0253048915 The tiger-stripe a ‘chintamani’ design (the three circles). The tiger strips are in fact a kind of flower but I don't remember where I saw this. https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/445263 Here a book about these Ottoman textiles. Attached Images

27th May 2020, 05:14 PM	#7
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 435	I have a vague recollection of this design being associated with Timur (1335-1405), making it somewhat more ancient than otherwise noted. Sadly, I have no idea of the actual source of that recollection. Attached Images

24th May 2020, 10:03 PM	#1
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 462	It's decorated in bubris or tiger stripes. I didn't read the description but bidders probably assumed it has some connection with Tipu Sultan.

25th May 2020, 02:55 AM	#3
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Any thoughts on the origin of the blade of the katar in question? Looks to be of possible European origin to my untrained eye. Scottish? For the hammer price this piece realized, I was expecting a fine blade of wootz.

27th May 2020, 02:54 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	As to its price: There was a study some years ago: professional economists wanted to know the relation of the actual worth to the final price at auction-like sales. The bottom line: real worth of an auctioned object equals the average of all bids. Based on this calculation, the winner did not seem to overpay excessively.