Identification help

Ian · 16th May 2020, 07:48 AM

And another one on Worthpoint here. Each of the three examples I've shown were considered the auction sites to be of French manufacture and made during approximately the WWII period. Each site advertised it as an unusual sword. It would seem that the French either made it for other nations or others copied them.

Clockwork, if no further information is forthcoming here, I'll move it over to the European forum where you might get a more detailed response.

Ian.

clockwork · 16th May 2020, 09:06 AM

Thank you. I suspected it was of FrenchDesign all along. Just was not sure with the flower motifs. Which resemble my Japanese Police sword from around the same period. Google search of the name leaned towards Morocco.

I was also suspect from the similar designs on the other sword which seem to have more providence than this design. In another forum From 10+ years ago it talked about mass produced fakes from China.but was unable to see the pics on it. here is the link. http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.20796.html. I hope to find out more and do thank all you.

Battara · 16th May 2020, 06:51 PM

Folks, I would argue with that auction attribution of their example being Japanese. They are confusing their example with the traditional WWII parade and police swords of Japan during that era.

What says "French" to me is not only the blade and the inscription, but this section (circled in red) that I have seen on French made examples:

asomotif · 17th May 2020, 08:50 PM

I am amazed about the quality of the example in post 8, but in general this sword makes me think of : made in the PRC

They like to combine styles and inscriptions and sell everything as ww2 japanese. just my 2 cents.

Ian · 18th May 2020, 01:15 AM

Clockwork:

As mentioned above, I'm moving this one over to the European Forum where you might get a clearer answer as to whether this is a French sword or a Chinese creation.

Ian.

Ian · 18th May 2020, 01:26 AM

Gents:

This sword was posted in the Ethnographic Forum for identification. It is of European style, and the inscription (GENDARMERIE ROYALE) is an obvious allusion to a possible French origin. However, a number of members have noted the Oriental motif (Chrysanthemum) on the cast brass elements, not typically in the Japanese style, leading to an alternative view that this may be a Chinese creation of the mid- to late-20th C.

Several examples of similar swords have been culled from the web to indicate that it is not a unique specimen. Different hilt styles are observed, with some examples being of poorer quality than the topic of this thread.

We are referring the sword to the European Armoury Forum for an opinion as to whether it has French origins or is a Chinese fantasy or knock off.

Ian

Will M · 18th May 2020, 02:16 AM

A definite fantasy sword most likely Chinese made. So many details and main parts inaccurately portrayed. I don't know where to start, the lettering is amateurish, the quality very low and nothing points to the sword as being from any pattern.The "patina" alone points to a chemical wash. Many sand casting flaws and non descript designs. Few swords are found with their leather blade washers and fantasy swords typically have poor quality leather washers as these do.
One auction describes the sword as:
"French Gendarmerie Royale Sword with brass two bar and dish back hilt. Decorated floral back strap. Complete with its steel scabbard with decorative brass ring mounts. Steel blade with remains of ?GENDARMERIE ROYALE? wording."
When one struggles to describe such swords, the above description is what you get. Auctioneers stay clear of describing these as authentic swords. Some auctioneers will tell you low bid start price tells bidders the item is a copy/fake.

16th May 2020, 07:48 AM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	A third example ... And another one on Worthpoint here. Each of the three examples I've shown were considered the auction sites to be of French manufacture and made during approximately the WWII period. Each site advertised it as an unusual sword. It would seem that the French either made it for other nations or others copied them. Clockwork, if no further information is forthcoming here, I'll move it over to the European forum where you might get a more detailed response. Ian. Last edited by Ian; 16th May 2020 at 01:36 PM.

16th May 2020, 06:51 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	Folks, I would argue with that auction attribution of their example being Japanese. They are confusing their example with the traditional WWII parade and police swords of Japan during that era. What says "French" to me is not only the blade and the inscription, but this section (circled in red) that I have seen on French made examples: Attached Images

18th May 2020, 01:26 AM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Moderator's Comment: Help identifying this sword Gents: This sword was posted in the Ethnographic Forum for identification. It is of European style, and the inscription (GENDARMERIE ROYALE) is an obvious allusion to a possible French origin. However, a number of members have noted the Oriental motif (Chrysanthemum) on the cast brass elements, not typically in the Japanese style, leading to an alternative view that this may be a Chinese creation of the mid- to late-20th C. Several examples of similar swords have been culled from the web to indicate that it is not a unique specimen. Different hilt styles are observed, with some examples being of poorer quality than the topic of this thread. We are referring the sword to the European Armoury Forum for an opinion as to whether it has French origins or is a Chinese fantasy or knock off. Ian

18th May 2020, 02:16 AM	#7
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 395	A definite fantasy sword most likely Chinese made. So many details and main parts inaccurately portrayed. I don't know where to start, the lettering is amateurish, the quality very low and nothing points to the sword as being from any pattern.The "patina" alone points to a chemical wash. Many sand casting flaws and non descript designs. Few swords are found with their leather blade washers and fantasy swords typically have poor quality leather washers as these do. One auction describes the sword as: "French Gendarmerie Royale Sword with brass two bar and dish back hilt. Decorated floral back strap. Complete with its steel scabbard with decorative brass ring mounts. Steel blade with remains of ?GENDARMERIE ROYALE? wording." When one struggles to describe such swords, the above description is what you get. Auctioneers stay clear of describing these as authentic swords. Some auctioneers will tell you low bid start price tells bidders the item is a copy/fake. Last edited by Will M; 18th May 2020 at 02:39 AM.

16th May 2020, 09:06 AM	#2
clockwork Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 96	Thank you. I suspected it was of FrenchDesign all along. Just was not sure with the flower motifs. Which resemble my Japanese Police sword from around the same period. Google search of the name leaned towards Morocco. I was also suspect from the similar designs on the other sword which seem to have more providence than this design. In another forum From 10+ years ago it talked about mass produced fakes from China.but was unable to see the pics on it. here is the link. http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.20796.html. I hope to find out more and do thank all you.

17th May 2020, 08:50 PM	#4
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	I am amazed about the quality of the example in post 8, but in general this sword makes me think of : made in the PRC They like to combine styles and inscriptions and sell everything as ww2 japanese. just my 2 cents.

18th May 2020, 01:15 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Clockwork: As mentioned above, I'm moving this one over to the European Forum where you might get a clearer answer as to whether this is a French sword or a Chinese creation. Ian.