Origin of HANCER daggers

kwiatek · 14th April 2020, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

As you can see some of them have hilts more Kurdish in style...
To support Marius point and the link with Persian blades, I think the Kurds are the link: from today Turkey to Syria up to Iran...

The one with the dark handle has a Turkish poetic inscription I've only ever seen on yataghans. Interesting piece

gp · 5th May 2020, 12:50 AM

Bıçak: knife EN[1] oldTR biç-/bıç- +gAk → biç- oldTR kınğırak (et bıçağı TR; meat knife EN). biçek/bıçak [ Divan-i Lugat-it Türk, 1070] Bel bıçağı, et bıçağı, kıyma bıçağı, kaymak bıçağı, pastırma bıçağı, börek bıçağı, bekçi bıçağı , kasap bıçağı. from oldTR[ Kaşgarî, Divan-i Lugati't-Türk, 1073] biçek: as-sikkīn [bıçak] (...) as-sayf [kılıç]; oldTR: [ Kutadgu Bilig, 1069] bıçaḳ tartma anda kötürme süŋük [bıçak çekme orda ve kemik taşıma oldTR bıçak/biçek kesme aleti oldTR *bıçġak < ETü bıç- +(g)Ak
Oldest source: biçek/bıçak "aynı anlamda" [Divan-i Lugat-it Türk (1070)]

The bichaq is a single-edged dagger of Turkish origin. It is widespread in areas controlled by the Ottoman Empire and its close neighbors.
The blade of this knife is either straight, holds a slight forward curve, like a short yataghan, or very rarely a backwards curve, like a jambiya.
This knife and others were made at the end of 19th century. They were often sold as souvenirs to officers of the Austro-Hungarian Empire who invaded Bosnia at the time. The principal centers of production were Sarajevo and Foca.

source of the above : costak.blogspot.com / date Friday, July 05, 2019

gp · 5th May 2020, 01:12 AM

also often used in the countries of the former Ottoman empire next to Biçak, Bicak / Bicaq the names Hancer/ Handschar/Hançar and Kama:

Hançer: dagger EN[2] fromAR ḥancar حنجر kısa savunma bıçağı Aramaic χangərā חנגרא a.a. (= Sogdian χangar a.a. ) dagger[1], knife [2]
[ Dede Korkut Kitabı, c.1400] Basatuŋ χançeri varıdı; edügünü yardı from Arabic ḥancar حنجر kısa savunma bıçağı TR; short defensive knife EN; from Aramaic χangərā חנגרא Sogdian χangar)

Oldest source: [Dede Korkut Kitabı (before c. 1400) : Basatuñ hançeri varıdı; edügünü yardı]

Kama: dagger EN[2] ARM kam գամ çivi. Nail EN

Oldest source: kamamak "perçinlemek" [TDK, Tarama Sözlüğü (before c. 1600)]

kama "büyük çivi, ağaç takoz" [ Meninski, Thesaurus (1680) ]
kama "bir nevi hançer" [Ahmet Vefik Paşa, Lugat-ı Osmani (1876)]

source : costak.blogspot.com / Friday, July 05, 2019

gp · 30th May 2020, 06:47 PM

Some literature:

Niels A. Andersen, On some Political Gold Yatagans from Algiers and Tunis, Vaabenhistoriske Aarbøger XIII, København 1966, page 159/226.
Esin Atil, The Age of Sultan Suleyman the Magnificent, Washington 1987, page 147, 152/153,
Maurice Bottet, La Manufacture d'Armes de Versailles, Boutet Directeur Artiste, Paris 1903,
Richard F. Burton, The Book of the Sword, London 1884, page 133/134. Anton Dolleczek, Monographie der k. u. k. österr.-ung. Blanken und Handfeuer-Waffen, Wien 1896/Graz 1970, page 32/33.
Jacob, Armes blanches page 114/123.
Dietrich Menz, Handschar/Yatagan, Deutsches Waffenjournal, Schwäbisch Hall 1967, Nr. 4 page 270/272.
Anthony North, Islamic Arms, London 1985, page 24/26
Marija Sercer, Jatagani u Povijesnom Muzeju Hrvatske, Zagreb 1975
Turgay Tezcan, Silahar, Topkapi Sarayi Müzesi, Istanbul 1983, page 32/33, 35.
Yatagane aus dem Historischen Museum von Kroatien in Zagreb, Katalog
Graz 1976
Vejsil Curcic , Starinsko Oruzje, Sarajevo 1926

5th May 2020, 12:50 AM	#2
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 899	origin of the name Bıçak Bıçak: knife EN[1] oldTR biç-/bıç- +gAk → biç- oldTR kınğırak (et bıçağı TR; meat knife EN). biçek/bıçak [ Divan-i Lugat-it Türk, 1070] Bel bıçağı, et bıçağı, kıyma bıçağı, kaymak bıçağı, pastırma bıçağı, börek bıçağı, bekçi bıçağı , kasap bıçağı. from oldTR[ Kaşgarî, Divan-i Lugati't-Türk, 1073] biçek: as-sikkīn [bıçak] (...) as-sayf [kılıç]; oldTR: [ Kutadgu Bilig, 1069] bıçaḳ tartma anda kötürme süŋük [bıçak çekme orda ve kemik taşıma oldTR bıçak/biçek kesme aleti oldTR *bıçġak < ETü bıç- +(g)Ak Oldest source: biçek/bıçak "aynı anlamda" [Divan-i Lugat-it Türk (1070)] The bichaq is a single-edged dagger of Turkish origin. It is widespread in areas controlled by the Ottoman Empire and its close neighbors. The blade of this knife is either straight, holds a slight forward curve, like a short yataghan, or very rarely a backwards curve, like a jambiya. This knife and others were made at the end of 19th century. They were often sold as souvenirs to officers of the Austro-Hungarian Empire who invaded Bosnia at the time. The principal centers of production were Sarajevo and Foca. source of the above : costak.blogspot.com / date Friday, July 05, 2019 Attached Images

5th May 2020, 01:12 AM	#3
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 899	origin of the names of Ottoman Daggers like Bıçak also often used in the countries of the former Ottoman empire next to Biçak, Bicak / Bicaq the names Hancer/ Handschar/Hançar and Kama: Hançer: dagger EN[2] fromAR ḥancar حنجر kısa savunma bıçağı Aramaic χangərā חנגרא a.a. (= Sogdian χangar a.a. ) dagger[1], knife [2] [ Dede Korkut Kitabı, c.1400] Basatuŋ χançeri varıdı; edügünü yardı from Arabic ḥancar حنجر kısa savunma bıçağı TR; short defensive knife EN; from Aramaic χangərā חנגרא Sogdian χangar) Oldest source: [Dede Korkut Kitabı (before c. 1400) : Basatuñ hançeri varıdı; edügünü yardı] Kama: dagger EN[2] ARM kam գամ çivi. Nail EN Oldest source: kamamak "perçinlemek" [TDK, Tarama Sözlüğü (before c. 1600)] kama "büyük çivi, ağaç takoz" [ Meninski, Thesaurus (1680) ] kama "bir nevi hançer" [Ahmet Vefik Paşa, Lugat-ı Osmani (1876)] source : costak.blogspot.com / Friday, July 05, 2019

30th May 2020, 06:47 PM	#4
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 899	Some literature: Niels A. Andersen, On some Political Gold Yatagans from Algiers and Tunis, Vaabenhistoriske Aarbøger XIII, København 1966, page 159/226. Esin Atil, The Age of Sultan Suleyman the Magnificent, Washington 1987, page 147, 152/153, Maurice Bottet, La Manufacture d'Armes de Versailles, Boutet Directeur Artiste, Paris 1903, Richard F. Burton, The Book of the Sword, London 1884, page 133/134. Anton Dolleczek, Monographie der k. u. k. österr.-ung. Blanken und Handfeuer-Waffen, Wien 1896/Graz 1970, page 32/33. Jacob, Armes blanches page 114/123. Dietrich Menz, Handschar/Yatagan, Deutsches Waffenjournal, Schwäbisch Hall 1967, Nr. 4 page 270/272. Anthony North, Islamic Arms, London 1985, page 24/26 Marija Sercer, Jatagani u Povijesnom Muzeju Hrvatske, Zagreb 1975 Turgay Tezcan, Silahar, Topkapi Sarayi Müzesi, Istanbul 1983, page 32/33, 35. Yatagane aus dem Historischen Museum von Kroatien in Zagreb, Katalog Graz 1976 Vejsil Curcic , Starinsko Oruzje, Sarajevo 1926