SHASHKA for Comment and ID

[kahnjar1]

To clarify what I am trying to establish, herewith is a pic of the sword without the scabbard (which has been correctly described as a "bitser").
The handle is silver and is decorated extensively. As can be seen from the other pics, the handle is of the "eared" type, and has the letters A.C stamped into it. So can anyone please tell me if this sword is Caucasian, Khyber or Bukhara, or some other type.
Stu

[Ren Ren]

This sword, without reservation, is Caucasian. I really like his hilt. I saw exactly the same thing at the Russian Ethnographic Museum in St. Petersburg. I think this handle is made in Tiflis, Georgia. The letters AC are the hallmark of the Assay Chamber inspector.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

This sword, without reservation, is Caucasian. I really like his hilt. I saw exactly the same thing at the Russian Ethnographic Museum in St. Petersburg. I think this handle is made in Tiflis, Georgia. The letters AC are the hallmark of the Assay Chamber inspector.

Thank you very much Ren. Just the information I was seeking.
Stu

[mariusgmioc]

To me, the blade looks very different from the typical blades used in the Caucasian or Russian shashkas.

I also checked with the examples in Kiril Rivkin's book but didn't find a match...

Also, the hilt is significantly wider than the blade which I consider a clear indication they were matched together in a later marriage...

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Also, the hilt is significantly wider than the blade which I consider a clear indication they were matched together in a later marriage...

It is quite possible. Traces of soldering between the blade and the hilt indicate repair.

[ariel]

I could not find anything similar in any of Rivkin’s books, in any edition of Astvatsaturyan’s book, or in a book ( album, essentially) of the Russian Ethnographic Museum.
It is possible that the latter does not show the entire exhibition or of the storage.
If so, I would appreciate seeing a picture with the label and/or provenance.
It should be mentioned that quite a lot of examples presented in their album are grossly mislabeled. I remember a discussion on the Russian Forum about it with multiple concerns. The publisher/editor agreed with the reaction but had 2 explanations: publishing team had no time for any review and they had to use museum labels. Pretty flimsy, isn’t it ?

Assay chamber stamps used initials of the inspector, a symbol ( female head or a coat of arms of a city where it was assayed) and the purity of silver. I am unaware of any official stamps with Cyrillic “AC” and no other official information required by law from the imperial assay inspectors. АС cannot be an abbreviation of Assaying Chamber: Russians did not call it as such in English. In Russian it was Probirnaya Palata.

I am certain you are unlikely to argue that the vastly different styles of decoration of the handle, suspension element/chape and throat indicate haphazard assembly.

The “ edge down” mode of suspension is also not Caucasian.

In summary, I see nothing Caucasian in the final product, and the “dog breakfast” of parts ( including conceivably even the blade, with which you hesitantly agree) do not give me any faith in the authenticity of this chimera of a shashka.

[ariel]

Kahnjar1:
What is a “bitser” ( allegedly correct identification of a scabbard)?
I am unaware of this word.

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by ariel

.
In summary, I see nothing Caucasian in the final product, and the “dog breakfast” of parts ( including conceivably even the blade, with which you hesitantly agree) do not give me any faith in the authenticity of this chimera of a shashka.

Chimera - this is when in Brooklyn an Indian blade of the beginning of the 20th century is attached to an Polish hilt of the late 18th century
In this case, we see:
1) the hilt - the Caucasus, the 19th century
2) the blade - the Caucasus, the 19th century
3) the details of the scabbard - the Caucasus, the 19th - beginning of the 20th century.

Originally Posted by ariel

I could not find anything similar in any of Rivkin’s books, in any edition of Astvatsaturyan’s book, or in a book ( album, essentially) of the Russian Ethnographic Museum.

The lack of similar items in books is a very weak argument. If I took it into account, I would have to admit the absence of Vietnam and Laos weapons in nature. And since Indochina’s weapons are the subject of my main interest, I know for sure that this is not so.

Originally Posted by ariel

Assay chamber stamps used initials of the inspector, a symbol ( female head or a coat of arms of a city where it was assayed) and the purity of silver. I am unaware of any official stamps with Cyrillic “AC” and no other official information required by law from the imperial assay inspectors. АС cannot be an abbreviation of Assaying Chamber: Russians did not call it as such in English. In Russian it was Probirnaya Palata.

I don’t understand where the assumption came from, that the letters AC can be an abbreviation of the Assay Chamber in English. It can only be a personal mark of the assay inspector. The set of characters you listed has become mandatory in the Russian Empire since the 1880s. Earlier in the Caucasus, much simpler rules applied. Which, moreover, did not apply to the item produced for the local market - silver made by the masters of Dagestan for customers in Dagestan does not have assay marks.