Yataghan translation

[TVV]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

The fact those weapons are displayed in Greek museums only means they were collected in Greece, but by no means can it be seen as evidence they were ALL made in Greece.

If multiple similarly decorated weapons were all collected within the same geographic area, does not that establish a distribution pattern?

As for the made vs. used debate, would you consider takoubas with the typical tripple fuller Solingen made blades as swords from the Sahel, or from Germany?

[Kubur]

Ok now let's be serious with facts
The only argument is the silver hilt and scabbard.
Silver work repousse was used by Ottomans not only in Greece, but also in Algeria and primary in Turkey.
Yes you have Greek yataghans with silver repousse, yes the work is of a very high quality. But the design and the patterns are very different from the ones made in Turkey.
You need to look at daggers and bichaq too.
If you don't see the differences then I can't do nothing for you.

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Silver work repousse was used by Ottomans not only in Greece, but also in Algeria

Correct - arms produced in Epirus were exported to North Africa, as Elgood mentions.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by TVV

If multiple similarly decorated weapons were all collected within the same geographic area, does not that establish a distribution pattern?

As for the made vs. used debate, would you consider takoubas with the typical tripple fuller Solingen made blades as swords from the Sahel, or from Germany?

Yes, it is exactly as you said: it establishes a DISTRIBUTION pattern but is not providing information about their origin.

If you find many WWII German weapons in Russia and see a massive amount of them in Russian museums, does this mean they were made in Russia?! In fact, even these days you may find lots of German rusty weapons in the area around present day Volgograd (formerly Stalingrad)... so can we conclude that Stalingrad was a major centre for manufacturing German weapons?!

Going a little bit further in time... the numerous Viking swords in English museums do indicate that they were made in England?

As the Ottoman army invaded the Balkans and Greece, they were accompanied by numerous Turkish swordsmiths necessary for ensuring the maintenance of their weapons.
As the Ottomans established local garrisons in the occupied areas, so they established local centres of swordmaking....

[TVV]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Going a little bit further in time... the numerous Viking swords in English museums do indicate that they were made in England?

You are bringing up a great point - the so called Viking swords were not made in Britain, where they were used by both Norsemen and Saxons, and they were not made in Scandinavia either. They were made by Frankish smiths (some even suggest it was Frankish monks) along the Rhineland. Yet we refer to these swords as Viking and not Frankish. Blades were traded far and wide, but mounts tend to reflect local tastes and provide more information about the actual users.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by TVV

You are bringing up a great point - the so called Viking swords were not made in Britain, where they were used by both Norsemen and Saxons, and they were not made in Scandinavia either. They were made by Frankish smiths (some even suggest it was Frankish monks) along the Rhineland. Yet we refer to these swords as Viking and not Frankish. Blades were traded far and wide, but mounts tend to reflect local tastes and provide more information about the actual users.

Exactly!

[Sylektis]

To begin with, it should be noted that at that time, Greece did not exist. However, there were Ottomans of Greek descent, very good at their job. They were located throughout the Ottoman territory, in some villages even as the Kallarites of Epirus almost 100% of the inhabitants were silversmiths. (The VULGARI international house for example started there.) Unfortunately, though we have a multitude of silverware in monasteries with their manufacturers' signatures, this is not the case with everyday objects such as weapons, jewelry, etc.
Thus, we cannot safely attribute the Nationality of an object, especially before 1821, when the Greek Revolution began. It may not sound scientific at all, but only with the experience of visiting as many museums as possible in the areas of the former Ottoman Empire can we attribute (always with probability) an object to Greek, Turkish, Albanian, Montenegrin or Armenian craftsman.
In this case, the photos do not help in any comparison, but I do not think the manufacturer of the scabbard is a Greek one.

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Sylektis

In this case, the photos do not help in any comparison, but I do not think the manufacturer of the scabbard is a Greek one.

Your knowledge of arms decorated and used in what is Greece today is far greater than mine, so I will defer to you on this.