18th Century Zoomporhic Shamshir

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by vilhelmsson

Thank you Marius. And I have your etching guide bookmarked.

I must shamefully admit that the poor hilt is what caught my touristy eye Do you have any thoughts on whether it was intended for domestic Indian tourists versus international tourists? I think we're far enough removed from the early 20th century that this isn't self-evident from it being offered for auction in Europe.

For the price I paid, I'm satisfied with an older, wootzy blade and a late kitschy (at best) hilt.

Your two cents shall be deposited in an interest bearing account of knowledge! In the meantime, I will try not to get into any sword fights. With this sword.

When I said "touristy" I didn't necessarilly mean for tourists. What I had in mind was a lower quality of workmanship hilt that is not suitable for real use. Whether it was meant for international collectors or just to make the sword look complete for display in an Indian house, I cannot say.

[Kubur]

i don't like to be negative with any forum member.
But here there is no discussion, the hilt is a touristic late stuff.
With the ears nailed and the trump in the air!
With the camel bone i would be tempted to put this art work in the chicken street of Kabul. The blade looks good.
If the blade is good, throw the hilt to the bin and buy a nice tulwar or pulwar hilt...

[mahratt]

This shamshir has been put up at one famous auction several times over the past two or three years
I think it caused potential buyers a lot of questions if they didn’t buy it for a long time ....

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by mahratt

I think it caused potential buyers a lot of questions if they didn’t buy it for a long time ....

Not surprisingly!

From your photos, it appears that the blade has indeed some rudimentary Indian ricasso.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Kubur

.
.... trump in the air!

Only when he is flying Airforce 1:-)


The interesting and potentially valuable part is the blade.
If it is wootz-y, then the money was well spent.
The handle could have been attached yesterday or 200 years ago: they were easy to change and virtually all really old Indian swords are on their second or fourth.

[vilhelmsson]

Originally Posted by Kubur

i don't like to be negative with any forum member.
But here there is no discussion, the hilt is a touristic late stuff.
With the ears nailed and the trump in the air!
With the camel bone i would be tempted to put this art work in the chicken street of Kabul. The blade looks good.
If the blade is good, throw the hilt to the bin and buy a nice tulwar or pulwar hilt...

Well, you guys know what they say about a fool and his money

The challenge for me, of course, is that it's a lot easier to learn about good stuff in books than the cheap looking stuff that would never make it into the books and which is easier to access. The forums are a better place to learn why some inexpensive stuff is crap and why other inexpensive stuff has some redeemable qualities, than spending years accumulating crap before buying something nice and realizing that you've only spent years collecting garbage.

[ariel]

Do not beat yourself up: everybody here went thru the same period. We all have our " walls of shame" ( more precisely boxes in dark rooms).
View it as a price of learning.
On top of that, if the blade is wootz, you got a winner. Changing the handle is simple, and a wootz pulwar will look gorgeous. Locals did it all the time, so you will continue the time-honored tradition:-)

[ALEX]

Vilhelmsson, you do not have to change the handle. Some people are too quick posing their opinions as ultimate guides for everyone to follow. This is quite inconsiderate because it does not regard individual tastes, stages and levels of collecting and collections. Some advice given are like: "your car is not a Ferrari, so throw it away and change to something else".

You liked this sword and the hilt in particular, and used your judgment in doing so. This is nothing to be ashamed of or discarding into the "wall of shame"... unless you were after an early Mughal masterpiece to complete a missing spot in your almost-complete early Mughal masterpieces collection.

Overall, this is a genuine antique sword. Yes, the handle is crudely made in comparison, but this does not imply it must be discarded.

As for wootz, you may test-etch a small portion of the blade without polishing it, good wootz will reveal itself, although I do not think it is wootz based on the photos. Once you know for sure, you may polish the whole blade and etch it to make it cleaner and uniform.

Good luck!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I think it likely that some play has been placed in the production of the pommel at #1 here at thread...
… It could be a walking stick head reformed onto this hilt for example and I suspect the ring of bone half way up the grip is also added.
As others have said this doesn't mean the whole thing is fiddled with as there may be a good blade here...I place a highly ornate elephant hilted tulvar and a contemporary dagger and an elephant walking stick head...

[ariel]

Alex is right: you may change the handle only if you absolutely hate the current one. Otherwise, leave it as is. Original status should be preserved as much as possible.
My only hesitation is the bone : it looks very new. Then , switching an ugly new one to a good looking old one is legitimate, IMHO.

Addendum: you do not need a microscope to identify long bone. There are slightly elongated black “spots” all over. These are fragments of blood vessels supplying the bone: they traverse through the periosteum, a thin connective tissue membrane surrounding the outer surface of the bone proper.