OLD DAGGER

bvieira · 29th September 2019, 12:39 PM

Hello,

This is a very difficult one..... the kind is obvious spanish known as "SPANISH MAIN GAUGE LEFT HAND DAGGER" the problem is that your item is of poor construction quality, it seem to have the right "age" in the metal but the construction is poor, maybe the said above is true, it can be a colonial made object as i'am not seeing this made in spain where quality were assured by having some of the best swortsmiths in the world like in toledo...

BV

CSinTX · 29th September 2019, 02:36 PM

I agree with M ELEY. His explanation makes the most sense.

M ELEY · 30th September 2019, 01:08 AM

The workmanship of Spanish colonial can be both bizarre and quite creative. When in a fix, they knew how to improvise. Because of the 'ersatz' nature of these pieces, it can cause much confusion in traditionalist collectors, who only see them as parts-swords/daggers or broken-up original patterns. In reality, they are their own unique forms, often one-off and folk-artsy, if you know what I mean. Thus, many collectors thumb their nose to them. I, on the other hand, find them unique and fascinating! You have a great piece there, Nickolas! Congrats!

M ELEY · 30th September 2019, 01:14 AM

Here are two examples from my collection. The first has interesting iron-work bars to the hilt with an over sized horn grip.

The second is a takeoff of the m1728 pattern, with a homemade wooden grip, crude wire, older cut-down sword blade, brazed guard lacking the quillon/pas d'ane or other amenities and a bowl from another sword. All of the correct period and displaying proper aging (i.e. not a later put-together blacksmith project-

)

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 30th September 2019, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Here are two examples from my collection. The first has interesting iron-work bars to the hilt with an over sized horn grip.

The second is a takeoff of the m1728 pattern, with a homemade wooden grip, crude wire, older cut-down sword blade, brazed guard lacking the quillon/pas d'ane or other amenities and a bowl from another sword. All of the correct period and displaying proper aging (i.e. not a later put-together blacksmith project-

)

I am concerned that the item at #1 is put together by a blacksmith and not original. Your items display what I am looking for in an old piece which has aged over the centuries and is without a hard corner ...all the angles are softened with age... The project weapon, on the other hand, is full of sharp corners.

Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

bvieira · 30th September 2019, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

I am concerned that the item at #1 is put together by a blacksmith and not original. Your items display what I am looking for in an old piece which has aged over the centuries and is without a hard corner ...all the angles are softened with age... The project weapon, on the other hand, is full of sharp corners.

Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

I agree.

M ELEY · 30th September 2019, 04:16 PM

Hello Ibrahiim and good to hear from you. Well, you do have a point there. Hard to tell without the item in hand (yes, I know. The ole fall-back

)

kronckew · 30th September 2019, 04:31 PM

Just because it's crude doesn't mean it's not 'original'.

see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVL46CM9k80

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY_GYDq-nJY

30th September 2019, 01:14 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Here are two examples from my collection. The first has interesting iron-work bars to the hilt with an over sized horn grip. The second is a takeoff of the m1728 pattern, with a homemade wooden grip, crude wire, older cut-down sword blade, brazed guard lacking the quillon/pas d'ane or other amenities and a bowl from another sword. All of the correct period and displaying proper aging (i.e. not a later put-together blacksmith project- ) Attached Images

29th September 2019, 12:39 PM	#1
bvieira Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 108	Hello, This is a very difficult one..... the kind is obvious spanish known as "SPANISH MAIN GAUGE LEFT HAND DAGGER" the problem is that your item is of poor construction quality, it seem to have the right "age" in the metal but the construction is poor, maybe the said above is true, it can be a colonial made object as i'am not seeing this made in spain where quality were assured by having some of the best swortsmiths in the world like in toledo... BV

29th September 2019, 02:36 PM	#2
CSinTX Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 233	I agree with M ELEY. His explanation makes the most sense.

30th September 2019, 01:08 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	The workmanship of Spanish colonial can be both bizarre and quite creative. When in a fix, they knew how to improvise. Because of the 'ersatz' nature of these pieces, it can cause much confusion in traditionalist collectors, who only see them as parts-swords/daggers or broken-up original patterns. In reality, they are their own unique forms, often one-off and folk-artsy, if you know what I mean. Thus, many collectors thumb their nose to them. I, on the other hand, find them unique and fascinating! You have a great piece there, Nickolas! Congrats!

30th September 2019, 04:16 PM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Hello Ibrahiim and good to hear from you. Well, you do have a point there. Hard to tell without the item in hand (yes, I know. The ole fall-back )

30th September 2019, 04:31 PM	#8
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	Just because it's crude doesn't mean it's not 'original'. see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVL46CM9k80 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY_GYDq-nJY