Identifying horn species on a yatagan hilt

[ipostswords]

So I got this zeybek yatagan with its distinctive T shaped hilt, a nice twist core blade and some silver inlay, and what I thought was a wooden hilt in the photos turned out to be horn.

Is there any way to identify the species it came from?

[David R]

Can we have a photo of the whole thing please.

[mahratt]

This is the horn of cattle. Maybe a buffalo, maybe a cow. But definitely not a rhino horn

[Oliver Pinchot]

Agreed. It's bovine horn.

[Helleri]

How wide is it at it's thickest part?

[Kubur]

If i put a torch behind my ears, they will be red translucid for sure
but not rhino either...

[David R]

There is a reason I asked for a pic' of the whole thing... More clues!

[ipostswords]

More photos

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Why is it bovine and not Rhino...? Its translucent and has the grain of Rhino...Therefor l suggest Rhino.

[Battara]

I have handled albino carabao horn before and it doesn't seem to be translucent like rhino, nor is it as fiberous as rhino.

If there is an example of albino carabao horn that is translucent like this, please post so that we can compare and learn.

[ipostswords]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Why is it bovine and not Rhino...? Its translucent and has the grain of Rhino...Therefor l suggest Rhino.

Your thread on omani khanjars is what initially taught me about the light test and got me thinking it might be rhino, but many people think it is ram or bovine. I don't know what to think.

[ipostswords]

Some mildly magnified images

[mahratt]

Sorry for my bad english. My 5 cents. I’ll try to explain about the rhino horn. I think everyone knows that a rhino horn has a structure that is different from that of a cow horn.
The rhino horn consists of special very hard hair that has grown together. The result is a structure in which the fibers are arranged - in parallel.
This can be seen in the photographs with red arrows.
If we look at the cross section of the horn, we will see a structure that is somewhat similar to the points - these are transverse sections of hairs.

On the subject that we are discussing, we see "curls" (indicated by green arrows), which do not happen on the rhino horn. And we do not see the "points" that occur on the cross section of the rhino horn.

In addition, the rhino horn is never stratified by “scales” (indicated by a yellow arrow). But such a stratification is found on old products from cow horn ...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ipostswords

Your thread on omani khanjars is what initially taught me about the light test and got me thinking it might be rhino, but many people think it is ram or bovine. I don't know what to think.

Not an easy one I agree ...and a rams horn ...is inscribed on the blade on your second picture...so... But the grip opposed to the ears is so hacked about it is almost impossible to tell ...but I will stick to the translucency test which indicates Rhino … probably very old but there it is.

Notwithstanding the horn ..this is a great weapon and a fine example.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Sorry for my bad english. My 5 cents. I’ll try to explain about the rhino horn. ...

Amazing demonstration, thank you
I also wonder about the properties of rhino horn.
Yes it was luxuous and expensive and therefore nice to have rhino horn grips.
But i think rhino is more resistant than bovine horn and less breakable.
Any idea about this?

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Amazing demonstration, thank you
I also wonder about the properties of rhino horn.
Yes it was luxuous and expensive and therefore nice to have rhino horn grips.
But i think rhino is more resistant than bovine horn and less breakable.
Any idea about this?

Thank you, Kubur

Yes, you're absolutely right, rhino is more resistant than bovine horn and less breakable.
Although, of course, cracks may also appear on it. Especially if the handle pads are thin. From what I saw - usually on such handles cracks appear next to the rivet.

[Rick]

Another Rhino horn property, it doesn't get slippery in a wet hand.

[sfenoid13]

I agree 100%! This is Rams horn. Made In Turkey. As far as I know they fry these horns before installation to protect them from worms getting to them, that’s why the color is usually odd in these and look like rhino. It’s fried

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Not an easy one I agree ...and a rams horn ...is inscribed on the blade on your second picture...so... But the grip opposed to the ears is so hacked about it is almost impossible to tell ...but I will stick to the translucency test which indicates Rhino … probably very old but there it is.

Notwithstanding the horn ..this is a great weapon and a fine example.

[ipostswords]

Thanks for your help everyone. I think ram seems to be the correct determination, it hadn't clicked ot me that the inlay was a rams head on the blade, but now I can't avoid seeing it.

I think the best way to check for sure would be to remove the handle scale and see if it has the "spaghetti stand" end grain, but I don't want to damage anything.

Even without checking the end grain, I am satified to say it's rams horn

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams sfenoid13, Well I never! That is amazing thank you indeed .. Regards Ibrahim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

I think Sfenoid13 might be correct: goat or ram horn.

Also, this is not a classical Zeibek yataghan, the blade and the metal parts of the handle are of a typical classical generic Ottoman fashion. There is no integral bolster , no T-blade so typical of Zeibek. The meaty ricasso-located plates are of a fashion often seen on Balkan examples. All together, those parts are too sophisticated for being of Zeibek origin.
However, horn plates are genuine Zeibek: they are a later replacement and even have extra holes to prove it.

[ipostswords]

Originally Posted by ariel

I think Sfenoid13 might be correct: goat or ram horn.

Also, this is not a classical Zeibek yataghan, the blade and the metal parts of the handle are of a typical classical generic Ottoman fashion. There is no integral bolster , no T-blade so typical of Zeibek. The meaty ricasso-located plates are of a fashion often seen on Balkan examples. All together, those parts are too sophisticated for being of Zeibek origin.
However, horn plates are genuine Zeibek: they are a later replacement and even have extra holes to prove it.

The blade does have a "T" spine, so there's that

[ariel]

Couldn't see it, sorry. Usually, Zeibek yataghans are very simple, with few decorations, curved ( usually not even recurved) blade, prominent T-spine and integral bolster.

[sfenoid13]

Originally Posted by ariel

I think Sfenoid13 might be correct: goat or ram horn.

Also, this is not a classical Zeibek yataghan, the blade and the metal parts of the handle are of a typical classical generic Ottoman fashion. There is no integral bolster , no T-blade so typical of Zeibek. The meaty ricasso-located plates are of a fashion often seen on Balkan examples. All together, those parts are too sophisticated for being of Zeibek origin.
However, horn plates are genuine Zeibek: they are a later replacement and even have extra holes to prove it.

I agree this is most likely not a Zeibek yatagan but an early Balkan example. The T handle seems like a later replacement , probably done in Turkey( where they fried the rams horn) ). Where did you get the Yataghan from ?

[ariel]

These are not mine, just examples from the net.

[sfenoid13]

Originally Posted by ariel

These are not mine, just examples from the net.

My question was for “ipostswords” guy..