Frontier Arithmetic: The Afghan Jezail

kahnjar1 · 26th August 2019, 10:51 PM

Hi Jim,
Though not entirely related to Jezails, but including some information about them, is this link placed on the current Martini Henry thread. I thought it of interest as it tells of arms smuggling to the Frontier during the 19th and 20th centuries. Interesting reading IMHO.
https://www.thefridaytimes.com/gunru...crash-of-1910/
Further, the map shows that Baluchistan and Afghanistan were originally next door to each other, which would also explain why the Jezail and "Sindi" guns were both described as Afghani.

I wonder if what we collectors have called "Sindi" guns should more correctly be called Baluch......food for thought.

Just as an observation....in the first pic both the long guns shown are matchlocks, while the guy on the right has what appears to be a percussion pistol tucked into his belt.

Stu

Jim McDougall · 28th August 2019, 08:11 AM

Ricky,
It truly is amazing how many non tourist items there really are, and it is hard to imagine the volume of these guns made through the years that ended up stashed away for countless years. I know that a arms collections themselves can end up stashed away for generations, and ultimately end up being revealed and of course sold off.

In my early fascination with "King of the Khyber Rifles" (uh, many many moons ago, the movie was 1953!!) and I got caught up in researching it all in the 80s. I was intrigued by the 'Khyber Rifles' unit, and pretty much wanted to have a progressive grouping of the guns they used. I got the Snider Enfield and Martini Henry OK, but it wasn't til earlier this month I finally got a jezail.

Stu,
Excellent article!! and great insight into the dynamics of the gun trade in these regions, which really explains a lot.
These 'borders' were exceptionally diaphanous in the 19th century, and even more so were tribal territories so it is quite understandable how the terms Sindhi, Baluch and Afghan became often interpolated or collectively used.
Thanks very much for the great input.
Interesting on the photo to see matchlocks in parallel to percussion !

Thanks guys,
Jim

kronckew · 28th August 2019, 11:36 AM

Watch it again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM_jVv1RDk8

Cool, but too much khukuri throwing.

Saw a few jezhails too. I gather the cartridge grease religious thing was a lie - and they were actually greased with vegetable based grease.

"We have blades of steel"

Jim McDougall · 28th August 2019, 09:33 PM

Thanks Wayne!!! An absolutely great nostalgic movie, with the pageantry of those great films of yesteryear. Forget accuracy, in those days it was all just the magic of the big screen .

Not sure I recall kukri throwing.
I had not recalled the Indian Mutiny being in this either. Like much of the lore of India and the Raj, the 'greased cartridge' case was dramatically seized upon, though the circumstances causing the rebellion were far more complex.
The cartridges for the new rifled Enfields were indeed initially greased, through horrendous oversight by the British administration with pig tallow in those issued from England; the ones made at the Dum Dum arsenal with cow tallow....thereby totally alienating the Muslim as well as Hindu sepoys.

The huge faux pas was realized quickly and orders from Bengal directed all extant cartridges be issued only to European forces; the native troops to create their own tallow of choice; and the entire drill to have cartridges broken open by fingers rather than teeth.
It was too late, the battle cry issued, and the disinformative info claiming vegetable fat fell flat on its face.

In all, a bit of a 'sticky wicket' which exploded catastrophically.

David R · 9th September 2020, 01:36 PM

My interest in this thread was recently revived by me actually getting one of these at last. On a previous thread there was a comment as to what 10 rupees was worth in real terms, and being the sort of person I am I found out. In 1898 it comes out as £157 in modern UK money, and about $200, working from the gold standard as it was on at the time. Now the pictures, my Jezail, and working out of the conversion.

SchildaBrit · 20th January 2021, 10:04 PM

OK, don't all laugh, but I'm seriously considering acquiring a jezail, to see how it shoots.

Has anyone out there actually seriously fired one of these, as a target rifle?

Hoping to get some serious answers,
Patrick

kahnjar1 · 20th January 2021, 10:46 PM

Suggest you PM RICKYSTL. I know he has shot these (and is still with us!!.

)
Stu

26th August 2019, 10:51 PM	#1
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,810	Some Frontier History Hi Jim, Though not entirely related to Jezails, but including some information about them, is this link placed on the current Martini Henry thread. I thought it of interest as it tells of arms smuggling to the Frontier during the 19th and 20th centuries. Interesting reading IMHO. https://www.thefridaytimes.com/gunru...crash-of-1910/ Further, the map shows that Baluchistan and Afghanistan were originally next door to each other, which would also explain why the Jezail and "Sindi" guns were both described as Afghani. I wonder if what we collectors have called "Sindi" guns should more correctly be called Baluch......food for thought. Just as an observation....in the first pic both the long guns shown are matchlocks, while the guy on the right has what appears to be a percussion pistol tucked into his belt. Stu Attached Images Last edited by kahnjar1; 27th August 2019 at 08:10 PM.

28th August 2019, 11:36 AM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,259	Watch it again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM_jVv1RDk8 Cool, but too much khukuri throwing. Saw a few jezhails too. I gather the cartridge grease religious thing was a lie - and they were actually greased with vegetable based grease. "We have blades of steel" Attached Images

9th September 2020, 01:36 PM	#5
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,134	My interest in this thread was recently revived by me actually getting one of these at last. On a previous thread there was a comment as to what 10 rupees was worth in real terms, and being the sort of person I am I found out. In 1898 it comes out as £157 in modern UK money, and about $200, working from the gold standard as it was on at the time. Now the pictures, my Jezail, and working out of the conversion. Attached Images

20th January 2021, 10:04 PM	#6
SchildaBrit Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 33	Shooting a jezail OK, don't all laugh, but I'm seriously considering acquiring a jezail, to see how it shoots. Has anyone out there actually seriously fired one of these, as a target rifle? Hoping to get some serious answers, Patrick

28th August 2019, 08:11 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,650	Ricky, It truly is amazing how many non tourist items there really are, and it is hard to imagine the volume of these guns made through the years that ended up stashed away for countless years. I know that a arms collections themselves can end up stashed away for generations, and ultimately end up being revealed and of course sold off. In my early fascination with "King of the Khyber Rifles" (uh, many many moons ago, the movie was 1953!!) and I got caught up in researching it all in the 80s. I was intrigued by the 'Khyber Rifles' unit, and pretty much wanted to have a progressive grouping of the guns they used. I got the Snider Enfield and Martini Henry OK, but it wasn't til earlier this month I finally got a jezail. Stu, Excellent article!! and great insight into the dynamics of the gun trade in these regions, which really explains a lot. These 'borders' were exceptionally diaphanous in the 19th century, and even more so were tribal territories so it is quite understandable how the terms Sindhi, Baluch and Afghan became often interpolated or collectively used. Thanks very much for the great input. Interesting on the photo to see matchlocks in parallel to percussion ! Thanks guys, Jim

28th August 2019, 09:33 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,650	Thanks Wayne!!! An absolutely great nostalgic movie, with the pageantry of those great films of yesteryear. Forget accuracy, in those days it was all just the magic of the big screen . Not sure I recall kukri throwing. I had not recalled the Indian Mutiny being in this either. Like much of the lore of India and the Raj, the 'greased cartridge' case was dramatically seized upon, though the circumstances causing the rebellion were far more complex. The cartridges for the new rifled Enfields were indeed initially greased, through horrendous oversight by the British administration with pig tallow in those issued from England; the ones made at the Dum Dum arsenal with cow tallow....thereby totally alienating the Muslim as well as Hindu sepoys. The huge faux pas was realized quickly and orders from Bengal directed all extant cartridges be issued only to European forces; the native troops to create their own tallow of choice; and the entire drill to have cartridges broken open by fingers rather than teeth. It was too late, the battle cry issued, and the disinformative info claiming vegetable fat fell flat on its face. In all, a bit of a 'sticky wicket' which exploded catastrophically.

20th January 2021, 10:46 PM	#7
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,810	Suggest you PM RICKYSTL. I know he has shot these (and is still with us!!. ) Stu