The Mexican gunpowder dilemma

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thank you guys for the outstanding perspective which surrounds this topic, and while not of course directly attending to the issues on the gunpowder, the context is certainly pertinent.
The Mexican forces under Santa Anna were indeed widely diverse ethnically, and while Mestizos were broadly considered of Spanish and Mayan mixed ancestry, there were over twenty Indian tribes in Mexico which also accounted for the mixed groups.

As noted, the ethnicity had nothing to do with the efficiency or lack thereof in the tactics and warfare employed by Santa Anna, however it does seem was less than concerned on the well being of his troops, whom he regarded as expendable.

Getting to the guns, it seems that the 'Brown Bess' purchased in huge volume by Mexico (over 400,000) was the Third Pattern M1793 (Windus pattern) designed to replace the earlier Long and Short Land patterns which comprised the two earlier types.
Production of these was temporarily halted with peace with France in 1802, but peace ended quickly, and production heartily resumed. Over three million were produced by the end of the Napoleonic wars in 1815. These were produced under the auspices of the 'Tower' in England, and the term 'India Pattern' was used for them, perhaps due to large EIC orders, of course quite separate from government orders.

Apparently, England decided to dispose of these, as many references deem a consistent reaction of England to peace, so some 700, 000 were sold off to Central and South America as well as Mexico, as these countries took independence from Spain .

So the disposal was not necessarily from poor quality, but from sudden surplus and opportunity to sell them off for profit and restoring the coffers after the long wars. The Baker rifle of course stood on its own merits for its accuracy , it was the ineffective long. heavy and awkward bayonet that was its issue.

I found that the British gunpowder was the 'best in Europe' and they apparently sold much of it to their allies, so I cannot imagine them not selling to Mexico and what countries bought the surplus guns. This was probably (I am assuming) that the tremendous supply of saltpeter coming out of India was the basis for such high quality powder.
This being the case, it seems likely that the powder may have been somehow adulterated or diminished in the also likely corrupt dealings of suppliers handling the Mexican powder.

What I have not been able to find is if it was produced in Mexico, or if they relied on outside suppliers.

With the firing of the Brown Bess muskets, in the original India pattern (Third pattern) that the Mexicans were using, it was given a rather poor review in criticism by Hans Buck about 1840s in "The Rifle and How to Use it" . The author claimed it was clumsy and worst contrived of any firelock in the world, and required the "largest charge of powder" and "its weight and windage were the greatest, its range the shortest, and its accuracy the least".

While this criticism years later was deemed harsh, it does seem that these muskets did require a notable charge of powder (it seems one revision to this pattern was a deeper pan and the charge was 6 drams). One soldiers account was that his shoulder was 'blackened' by the repeated recoil.

With this it would seem that the Mexican forces, not particularly familiar with the firing of these, would quickly resort to lowering the weapon away from their shoulders. If they were adding to the already excessive charge required then they must have been like hand held cannons, and the explosions into the darkness and disorganized masses (there were numerous redirections in the attack) simply devastating fire without aim.

This was the recipe for disaster, but with the defenders at the Alamo overrun, outnumbered, caught off guard, the outcome was still in Mexican favor.

Still, despite the obvious failings of Mexican force effectiveness overall with poorly trained troops, disrupted attack maneuvers etc. it was still the powder that played a large part in all of this, and this is the theme of this thread.

I think it reasonable to assume since the absolute facts seem to be few and far between on the gunpowder question that the Mexican supply of weapons also included gun powder. The most obvious factory appears to be Faversham; Please See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favers...ry#World_War_I

The factory supplied all stations East via the EIC and also is noted as instrumental in the Industrial Revolution where explosives played an important role in blowing tunnels and roads ...another vital ingredient being gunpowder... Emphasis however, though my own , seems to place the Ports of Liverpool and Bristol in their trade with Africa and the Americas and Mexico (Triangular Trade) where it is noted that gunpowder could be used at African ports for exchanging for slaves. It would seem logical that in transporting gunpowder there must have been an exchange also in the Americas and particularly since a lot of weapons were being sold to Mexico from Tower armouries.

As an add on note having absorbed a load of detail on The Brown Bess, while I agree on the importance of decent gunpowder the weapon was not the ideal candidate for an assault on a fortification and was more used in the mass lines of infantry against an enemy advancing in packed ranks in a long line at least two files deep and occasionally at very short range around 30 paces. The great danger was in firing too high as often the undergrowth behind the targets at Waterloo (using the Indian version), for example, were cut short as rounds were too high. The Brown Bess was no sharpshooters weapon since the barrel gave it more the feel of a shotgun.The barrel in fact had a variable calibre and almost no two weapons were of exactly the same bore...It had no grooves, but even so, well aimed it could when fired on mass decimate an enemy advancing in the open.

[fernando]

I wonder whether the guy in uniform at the Alamo site went, in his synopsis, as deep as to enlighten the audience on the gunpowder saga. I was too far i couldn't hear him, or understand what he was saying ... a cheap excuse for my lack of patience.
But i have read anecdotes about the subject, namely in a narration of the Palo Alto encounter, in that:
"Mexican gunpowder, for example, was of such poor quality that artillery barrages often sent cannonballs bouncing lazily across the battlefield, and the American soldiers merely had to step out of the way to avoid them"
(Zachary Taylor ?).

Or in the Bejar siege (translating):
" In some cases, Mexican bullets slided by the Texian soldiers bodies, causing little damage beyond a bruise.
(Stephen L. Hardin)

Perhaps the following article by Stuart Reid, not objectively dedicated to the discussed topic, helps cracking the riddle and suggests what the solution to solve the problem should have been; one visibly not put into practice by the Mexican forces.

.

[Jim McDougall]

Guys thank you so much for these outstanding entries!!
Philip, I sincerely appreciate the patient and detailed explanations on all these factors. This thread has been quite and education for me as I have never focused on the dynamics and processes involved in the firearms or artillery of these periods. While being familiar with the types of guns, it was only a historical overview noting the various forms in use.

Obviously, I am not a 'shooter' either, but your explanations of how the powder detonates (or explodes as it seems more properly described) makes perfect sense in the propelling of the projectile. It is my understanding that the added powder was to increase the velocity of the ball (or buck and ball) being fired. I was expecting that might have increased the recoil, not to mention the flash.
It sounds as if the powder was degraded in any manner, the resultant 'explosion' would have been 'adequate' regardless, and it sounds like the flash was more troubling than the recoil.

The number of 'friendly fire' casualties seems to suggest that somehow adequate propulsion was reached in at least a good number of instances. It sounds like a profound number of misfires probably took place as well.
The inability to reload in the cold and darkness and in chaos was certainly what brought the preferred bayonet to use, and it seems virtually most of the victims probably were bayonetted.

Ibrahiim, excellent notes on the British aspects of arms and powder. It does indeed seem that there were probably stores of powder sold along with the huge numbers of guns, and their powder was as noted earlier, probably the most superior. If I have understood correctly, the 'third pattern' musket Brown Bess we are discussing were I think largely intended for EIC purchase, but they were declined or something to that effect. I think that or perhaps the officer involved in design (Windus) may have been associated with EIC,. Whatever the case, it was basically the Brown Bess.
Fascinating on the powder plant in Faversham which well illustrates the volatility issues with this. Thank you so much for the great research in finding all this perspective!

Fernando, excellent article by Mr. Reid!!! and specifically addresses many of the questions I had toward the Mexican powder issues. In my research I do recognize the anecdotes re: Mexican powder but the specifics Mr. Reid attends to are most helpful. Thank you.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... Obviously, I am not a 'shooter' either, but your explanations of how the powder detonates (or explodes as it seems more properly described) ...

Jim, i was once told that gunpowder, as the one dealt here, does not explode but, quickly burns... faster or slower depending on its granulation. It would only explode if confined, as cited by Philip. The concept that it explodes, although widespread, is erroneous. If in fact it did explode while shooting, pressure and exothermy generated inside the gun would be such that it would burst and hurt the shooter.
... Shooter i am not, either.

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks Fernando, indeed Philip very well explained the dynamics of gunpowder, and I had often heard that flintlocks often burst due to improper charge and just the kind of detonation you describe. I think the terminology is confusing, I had read that detonation or explosion were wrong terms.

I suppose that explosion might be regarded as a concentrated and VERY rapidly burning of a measure of gunpowder (which they says is called 'black' powder, yet according to sources they say is gray). Confusing.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thanks Fernando, indeed Philip very well explained the dynamics of gunpowder, and I had often heard that flintlocks often burst due to improper charge and just the kind of detonation you describe. I think the terminology is confusing, I had read that detonation or explosion were wrong terms.

I suppose that explosion might be regarded as a concentrated and VERY rapidly burning of a measure of gunpowder (which they says is called 'black' powder, yet according to sources they say is gray). Confusing.

Jim -- you have it pegged. The impression I get from the literature and being a layman taking advice from shooters who reload their own cartridges, is this: burning (combusion) and explosion (or detonation) are on the same spectrum, and one becomes the other when the speed of heat- or flame induced chemical change passes a certain point.

And confinement does play a huge part. Both black and smokeless powder will burn with a flame in open air but will go boom when in an enclosed space. The cartridge guys emphasize that modern smokeless powders are more powerful than black powder (plus the advantages of far less flame, smoke, and residue) to a large degree because the combustion "profile" is different, mainly faster (not being a chemist I can't delve further into the theoretical details) and the fact that the constituent chemicals generate more "oomph" in the first place. But the fact that my head is still intact is that I followed their advice to NEVER load smokeless powder into a barrel or a cartridge case designed for a black powder gun. Also to be careful to choose the correct type among the plethora of nitrocellulose powders on the market for a particular caliber and type of firearm, because burning rate varies to measurable degrees from one to another and an inappropriate burning rate can create dangerous chamber pressures that might damage either the weapon or the guy firing it.

From this, may I clarify the comment on overloading, that it isn't just flintlocks that are in danger of bursting under excessive charges, this is true of all firearms including modern ones. Nowadays, barrels of modern ordnance steels are generally of a high level of strength and safety, but it is the breech components that can still fail and turn into shrapnel (I've seen it happen on rifle ranges and it's scary, lucky that no serious injuries resulted). Back in the era which we are talking about, quality of gun barrels varied enormously -- this was true until industrial processes and government "proof" standards were more systematic. The difference between the best sporting gun barrels, those wonderful creations by the Cominazzo family or by Bis and the best Spanish makers, was far and away above the typical munition-quality barrel, which was typically made of a longitudinal flat strip of iron, curled lengthwise around a mandrel, with a single seam hammer-forged straight from breech to muzzle.

[fernando]

Filipe, there is no doubt that, my uneducated attempt to approach powder dynamics, burning versus exploding, has by far a better clarification in the comprehensive way you put it.
Also your mentioning issues involving gunpowder loading up to nowadays is more than pertinent. I have learnt that, black to smokeless powder transition, provided for a frequent exponential power increase. In two cases i have acquired 'not so antique' weapons, passive of being loaded with cartridges containing different types of gunpowder, i was firmly warned by the (different) sellers that, i should take care with the ammunitions i loaded them with ... ignoring whether i was only a collector or (also) a shooter. I soon got rid of them, anyhow.