Shipping from Italy

kai · 22nd July 2019, 07:11 AM

I also did experience shipping quotes from Czerny’s which seemed to be in line with other auctions. If you find a cheaper carrier, I‘d guess they would be happy to hand over your piece and even do the packing for a nominal fee.

If I understand correctly, the main issue with Italy are national legislations imposing quite a bit of rules and associated paperwork on selling and shipping hot as well as cold iron... Even traveling with a very simple pocket knife is pretty much outlawed - I’m sure this really helps with fighting the mafia...

As Philip points out, the idiosyncratic rules of the carriers are often a greater pain than national and international regulations. Even USPS is known to decline overseas shipping of items which are perfectly legal and not restricted in the destination country (as well as the US)!

And, yes, ebay’s global shipping makes things even worse and is much more expensive than any regular shipping including customs fees.

Did I mention my pet peeve - currency exchange rates and fees?

Regards,
Kai

Philip · 22nd July 2019, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Did I mention my pet peeve - currency exchange rates and fees?

Regards,
Kai

Kai, this is a bugaboo that hits all of us who need to pay or receive money across borders. It can feel like highway robbery. PayPal uses a crummy rate (for us, not them). Bank rates may be better depending on where you have your account -- but wire transfer fees are a ripoff. For instance, my bank charges me a $15 flat rate fee just to receive a transfer and post it to my account balance. International wires, that involve a currency exchange en route, invariably trigger "intermediary bank fees" that leave the recipient anywhere from $15 to $20 short, depending on the size of the payment. A recent payment from a customer in Europe (outside the euro zone) left me $24 shy of the invoice amount due to these intermediary fees.

For some years now, I have been using, for international transactions, an online service called TransferWise. It uses an electronic funds transfer system that's fast, offers very competitive exchange rates, and only charges a miniscule service fee to the sender. The best thing is that the payee gets exactly the amount you send, no intermediary bank or currency-exchange fees added on. You can find out how it works from their website. It doesn't get any more painless than this.

Philip · 22nd July 2019, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

As Philip points out, the idiosyncratic rules of the carriers are often a greater pain than national and international regulations. Even USPS is known to decline overseas shipping of items which are perfectly legal and not restricted in the destination country (as well as the US)!

Regards,
Kai

Just got an email from a customer in Germany who wants to send some blades for polishing. Says that the Deutsche Post's parcel service is now run by DHL, and apparently swords are now on their no-take list. UPS will accept weapons so long as they are not firearms (but apparently some auctioneers can use UPS to ship guns within the EU as I pointed out previously).

Now, the kickier: UPS is saying that they will transport his swords but they don't take antiques! No kidding...

Back in the 1980s when I was living in Hawaii I had two problems with UPS and their antiques policy. One, they refused to accept a rare book that I wanted to send to a buyer in England. No artwork, unique collectibles, nor anything "irreplaceable" I was told. Two, I had to battle them tooth and nail for compensation to repair a Russian samovar that they damaged in transit. Tried to deny the claim based on it being antique. I finally convinced them that it was not old, it was "second hand merchandise", not unlike the household crap that bazillions of people ship thru UPS every day. Fortunately the idiots couldn't read the Russian inscription "Sankt Peterburg 1906" stamped on it.

Now, my colleague in the Netherlands has used his shipping consolidator account to cover the charges for the restored stuff I send back to him, invariably UPS gets the pick because of their better rates. All of the stuff is antique and described as such on the declaration form. UPS hasn't uttered a peep about that! Where is the logic?

As to your comment on USPS (US Snail Mail), occasionally a counter clerk will give you the song and dance about "swords are weapons and you can't send them". Simply take the parcel to another station. There is no rule against sending either swords or antiques -- this becomes apparent if you go through the process of preparing international shipping labels on their website since each country's import rules pop up on the screen..

I always recommend to US-based colleagues that if they use US mail, it's best to open an online account and thus prepare your shipping labels and customs dec (for overseas shipments) forms on your computer. That way you just drop off your box for scanning, with labels in the pouch. The clerks don't generally read line-by-line so that removes the temptation to act as impromptu enforcer of an imaginary regulation. If you do the forms by hand, they tend to check more closely.

Sajen · 22nd July 2019, 05:37 PM

Hello Eftihis,

I know your problem, look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=z%FCrich
But like Kai and Philip I know that Czernys' shipping isn't expensive normally! There will be a reason, ask them for the reason. Hope that you will find a solution for the problem.

Regards,
Detlef

vilhelmsson · 22nd July 2019, 06:09 PM

I purchased at Czerny's March auction. The shipping price wasn't too bad. 210 euros for 2 swords and a chainmail shirt to the US.

But there were fish and wildlife holds in Italy and the US, as well as an FDA hold, and it took about a month.

In my discussion with the agency official inspecting my package whom UPS connected me with, I forget whether it was US FDA or F&W, they said that both agencies randomly inspect antiques shipments valued at over $1,000 and it can take a while once they get their mitts on it.

Philip · 22nd July 2019, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vilhelmsson

In my discussion with the agency official inspecting my package whom UPS connected me with, I forget whether it was US FDA or F&W, they said that both agencies randomly inspect antiques shipments valued at over $1,000 and it can take a while once they get their mitts on it.

OK, so now we have to deal with CITES on top of shippers who fear that our little community of antiques buffs might be feeding arms to terrorists...

In the US, incoming shipments are subject to random inspections regardless of whether by post or commercial carrier. Officials with the Fish and Wildlife administration are in charge of it; they operate under the bureaucratic umbrella of the US Dept. of Agriculture, and they work hand in glove with Border Control and Customs.

You are correct in that customs declarations are flagged, via contents description and value, for these inspections. "Antiques" and any verbiage pertaining to the decorative arts will trigger an occasional look-see; it's ironic for the recipient because "antique" designation is pretty much a free pass as re: import duty exemption if the thing is over a century old.

In my experience, some dealers who regularly ship to the US might be "flagged" for regular monitoring, likewise for recipients in the US who have been tagged with a "problem" shipment issue before. It's happened with guys I know in the UK and here in the States. And some overseas dealers have led a charmed life, having shipped ivory hilted daggers to the US repeatedly over the last umpteen years til recently.

So it can be a crapshoot... But do you want to take a chance? I have two colleagues in the trade who had problems over FAUX tortoise shell veneered sword hilts, both confiscated by officials who insisted that they were the real thing. One dealer, Europe based, got his merch out of hock after several months of sending in documentation explaining why his hilt veneer was ersatz (it doesn't take a great deal of art expertise to tell the difference). The other fellow, based in the US, had a similar type of sword confiscated en route to an overseas buyer, seized before it left our shores and that case is still unresolved.

The inspections are conducted in varying degrees. Often a simple X-ray scan is enough to clear a shipment, I sometimes receive a parcel with the F&W inspection sticker or tape on the outside, but with the original sealing undisturbed. A few times, the box looked opened and resealed. No problems with undue delays resulting from this, however. I have had far greater issues with carriers erroneously routing the parcel through their hub to another state, and it falling off the tracking net for awhile. Or for postal shipments of all kinds (not just antique weapons) held up for weeks at the USPS' New York international processing center for reasons unrelated to CITES.

kahnjar1 · 22nd July 2019, 10:21 PM

Hi Philip.....Interesting first comment of yours regarding Deutschepost/DHL. I have just received a sword from Germany sent by this method and correctly described as a sword, so something does not ring true here.
Stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

Just got an email from a customer in Germany who wants to send some blades for polishing. Says that the Deutsche Post's parcel service is now run by DHL, and apparently swords are now on their no-take list. UPS will accept weapons so long as they are not firearms (but apparently some auctioneers can use UPS to ship guns within the EU as I pointed out previously).

Now, the kickier: UPS is saying that they will transport his swords but they don't take antiques! No kidding...

Back in the 1980s when I was living in Hawaii I had two problems with UPS and their antiques policy. One, they refused to accept a rare book that I wanted to send to a buyer in England. No artwork, unique collectibles, nor anything "irreplaceable" I was told. Two, I had to battle them tooth and nail for compensation to repair a Russian samovar that they damaged in transit. Tried to deny the claim based on it being antique. I finally convinced them that it was not old, it was "second hand merchandise", not unlike the household crap that bazillions of people ship thru UPS every day. Fortunately the idiots couldn't read the Russian inscription "Sankt Peterburg 1906" stamped on it.

Now, my colleague in the Netherlands has used his shipping consolidator account to cover the charges for the restored stuff I send back to him, invariably UPS gets the pick because of their better rates. All of the stuff is antique and described as such on the declaration form. UPS hasn't uttered a peep about that! Where is the logic?

As to your comment on USPS (US Snail Mail), occasionally a counter clerk will give you the song and dance about "swords are weapons and you can't send them". Simply take the parcel to another station. There is no rule against sending either swords or antiques -- this becomes apparent if you go through the process of preparing international shipping labels on their website since each country's import rules pop up on the screen..

I always recommend to US-based colleagues that if they use US mail, it's best to open an online account and thus prepare your shipping labels and customs dec (for overseas shipments) forms on your computer. That way you just drop off your box for scanning, with labels in the pouch. The clerks don't generally read line-by-line so that removes the temptation to act as impromptu enforcer of an imaginary regulation. If you do the forms by hand, they tend to check more closely.

Philip · 22nd July 2019, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Philip.....Interesting first comment of yours regarding Deutschepost/DHL. I have just received a sword from Germany sent by this method and correctly described as a sword, so something does not ring true here.
Stu

Stu, I was simply passing along some info given to me by a customer residing in Germany, who was told this by a DP/DHL guy just a couple days ago when he called them about sending his swords to me in the US.

Like you, I received a sword from Germany some months ago, accepted by DHL for overseas transport and in my case, transferred to the USPS system for delivery to me in California. No problems at least in that case.

Have policies suddenly changed, like the situation with FedEx which I had earlier just as a sword was being shipped (which I alluded to in a prior post)?
Or has my customer just been given a bum steer by the organization in response to his inquiry?

At any rate, thanks for posting this, will contact him via email to advise him of your experience, maybe he can inquire further and get a resolution to his situation.

kahnjar1 · 22nd July 2019, 11:34 PM

Hi Philip,
I think that it depends on who you get at the receiving counter. In my experience here in NZ if you happen to be "served" by an over diligent person then you get the third degree. If you are lucky, then the parcel is accepted without any problem.
Luck of the draw.............

Stu

RAMBA · 23rd July 2019, 08:35 AM

I have had an item shipped from Italy - all antique items need clearance papers from the Italian Government for export from Italy - this can take a couple of weeks but the auction house should arrange for a small fee.To make sure Italian heritage is not being shipped out. Unfortunately a over efficacious official opened the package and the hilt was damaged.

I have just had a aboriginal spear thrower damaged (12 inch gash) with a box cutter again by someone opening the package - box arrived with half the things sticking out.

Just had two items from Germany sent at a reasonable price by the Auction house. 75 Euro shipped international -not cheap but i got both items at a very good price.

International shipping for even small kukri or a hand shield can range wildly from the UK. Ranging from 35 pounds to 150 or more. I have had stupid quotes for a single item. Most UK auction houses will not ship international so the options for international shipped items are limited. I recently asked for a shipping quote for 4 kukri/Bhutanese dagger sized items and I go the following prices.

Our estimate to collect, pack and ship the above mentioned Lots to Australia is :

£229.75 via Parcelforce

Or

£193.00 via DHL Express

Or

£188.00 via UPS Express

Alternatively, our estimate to collect, pack and ship the above mentioned Lots to a UK address is :

£50.90 via Parcelforce 24

Or

£46.40 via Parcelforce 48

Shipping costs for antique swords and weapons is a real issue. I have to really want the piece for my collection to pay some of the shipping quotes. And hope on the day i get it at a good price.

I recently sold a 19th C spear head to a chap in NZ and their customs seized it and he had to get police clearance to take possession of a prohibited weapon. After 6 weeks it was cleared only to be delivered to the wrong address and sit in the rain for 9 days!!!!!!!!!!!! Good one NZ Post.

Generally private sales international go much better and have less issues.

The whole international shipping issue - cost, paranoia and carelessness is a real issue for any collector or trader.

Philip · 23rd July 2019, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAMBA

I have had an item shipped from Italy - all antique items need clearance papers from the Italian Government for export from Italy - this can take a couple of weeks but the auction house should arrange for a small fee..

Yes. Even an out of print book from the 1940s! I bought a copy of Malatesta's Armi ed Armaioli d'Italia last year and in the parcel was a signed and stamped certificate approving its export from Italy.

The auction house I frequently buy from in Italy handles the export paperwork, you're right about the time frame but it's not an undue burden. I have no idea what the fee is since the dispatch portion of their invoice is all rolled into one number.

RAMBA · 23rd July 2019, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Philip,
I think that it depends on who you get at the receiving counter. In my experience here in NZ if you happen to be "served" by an over diligent person then you get the third degree. If you are lucky, then the parcel is accepted without any problem.
Luck of the draw.............

Stu

I recently old a 19th C spear head to a chap in NZ and their customs seized it and he had to get police clearance to take possession of a prohibited weapon. After 6 weeks it was cleared only to be delivered to the wrong address and sit in the rain for 9 days!!!!!!!!!!!! Good one NZ Post.

kahnjar1 · 23rd July 2019, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAMBA

I recently old a 19th C spear head to a chap in NZ and their customs seized it and he had to get police clearance to take possession of a prohibited weapon. After 6 weeks it was cleared only to be delivered to the wrong address and sit in the rain for 9 days!!!!!!!!!!!! Good one NZ Post.

Hi Ramba,
I agree with the comments about NZ Post.They can be rather slack at times.

As for the spear head being held by Customs, it would have been classed by our law as a double edged knife (dagger) which DOES require a permit to import here. If it was SINGLE edged then there should be no problem, so what I am saying is that a sword or knife (single edged) are generally OK without an import permit but DOUBLE edged need a Permit to Import to NZ.
Bottom line here is that if one is buying from ANY COUNTRY, then it is the BUYERS responsibility to make sure that he or she has the right paperwork and is aware of the requirements to import an item. The Law your buyer needs to be aware of is the Customs Prohibition Import Act 2017. If he is not aware of it, then he should be IMHO.
Stu

Philip · 23rd July 2019, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Philip,
I think that it depends on who you get at the receiving counter. In my experience here in NZ if you happen to be "served" by an over diligent person then you get the third degree. If you are lucky, then the parcel is accepted without any problem.
Luck of the draw.............

Stu

This is exactly the case with the US Snail and judging from your experience it must be the same worldwide with any state or quasi-governmental bureaucracy. Consider the type of people working for outfits like that ...

As you say, it's the luck of the draw. With our Post Office, you can always drive a couple miles to a station in the next postal district to find a sensible employee there.

RAMBA · 25th July 2019, 10:32 PM

I have been trying to obtain shipping quotes for a small wooden mask coming up for sale in the USA. International shipping - I think we have a new stupid quote of the year.

A USPS store.

"Hello

Can you also quote on shipping of this item below.

USPS and I have already had a quote of $120 USD.

Thanks

*****

***

What are the dimensions, weight and value of this mask?

Thanks ****

"16 x 9 x 4.5 inches. 1.3 KG approx or less. Value $150 USD approx.

Thanks"

****

"Good morning,

Pick-up, packaging, and shipment is apprx. $735.69. Please advise is you'd like us to proceed.

Thank you!

22nd July 2019, 07:11 AM	#1
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	I also did experience shipping quotes from Czerny’s which seemed to be in line with other auctions. If you find a cheaper carrier, I‘d guess they would be happy to hand over your piece and even do the packing for a nominal fee. If I understand correctly, the main issue with Italy are national legislations imposing quite a bit of rules and associated paperwork on selling and shipping hot as well as cold iron... Even traveling with a very simple pocket knife is pretty much outlawed - I’m sure this really helps with fighting the mafia... As Philip points out, the idiosyncratic rules of the carriers are often a greater pain than national and international regulations. Even USPS is known to decline overseas shipping of items which are perfectly legal and not restricted in the destination country (as well as the US)! And, yes, ebay’s global shipping makes things even worse and is much more expensive than any regular shipping including customs fees. Did I mention my pet peeve - currency exchange rates and fees? Regards, Kai

22nd July 2019, 05:37 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,269	Hello Eftihis, I know your problem, look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=z%FCrich But like Kai and Philip I know that Czernys' shipping isn't expensive normally! There will be a reason, ask them for the reason. Hope that you will find a solution for the problem. Regards, Detlef

22nd July 2019, 06:09 PM	#5
vilhelmsson Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Bay Area Posts: 57	I purchased at Czerny's March auction. The shipping price wasn't too bad. 210 euros for 2 swords and a chainmail shirt to the US. But there were fish and wildlife holds in Italy and the US, as well as an FDA hold, and it took about a month. In my discussion with the agency official inspecting my package whom UPS connected me with, I forget whether it was US FDA or F&W, they said that both agencies randomly inspect antiques shipments valued at over $1,000 and it can take a while once they get their mitts on it.

22nd July 2019, 11:34 PM	#9
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,797	Hi Philip, I think that it depends on who you get at the receiving counter. In my experience here in NZ if you happen to be "served" by an over diligent person then you get the third degree. If you are lucky, then the parcel is accepted without any problem. Luck of the draw............. Stu

23rd July 2019, 08:35 AM	#10
RAMBA Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 102	I have had an item shipped from Italy - all antique items need clearance papers from the Italian Government for export from Italy - this can take a couple of weeks but the auction house should arrange for a small fee.To make sure Italian heritage is not being shipped out. Unfortunately a over efficacious official opened the package and the hilt was damaged. I have just had a aboriginal spear thrower damaged (12 inch gash) with a box cutter again by someone opening the package - box arrived with half the things sticking out. Just had two items from Germany sent at a reasonable price by the Auction house. 75 Euro shipped international -not cheap but i got both items at a very good price. International shipping for even small kukri or a hand shield can range wildly from the UK. Ranging from 35 pounds to 150 or more. I have had stupid quotes for a single item. Most UK auction houses will not ship international so the options for international shipped items are limited. I recently asked for a shipping quote for 4 kukri/Bhutanese dagger sized items and I go the following prices. Our estimate to collect, pack and ship the above mentioned Lots to Australia is : £229.75 via Parcelforce Or £193.00 via DHL Express Or £188.00 via UPS Express Alternatively, our estimate to collect, pack and ship the above mentioned Lots to a UK address is : £50.90 via Parcelforce 24 Or £46.40 via Parcelforce 48 Shipping costs for antique swords and weapons is a real issue. I have to really want the piece for my collection to pay some of the shipping quotes. And hope on the day i get it at a good price. I recently sold a 19th C spear head to a chap in NZ and their customs seized it and he had to get police clearance to take possession of a prohibited weapon. After 6 weeks it was cleared only to be delivered to the wrong address and sit in the rain for 9 days!!!!!!!!!!!! Good one NZ Post. Generally private sales international go much better and have less issues. The whole international shipping issue - cost, paranoia and carelessness is a real issue for any collector or trader.

25th July 2019, 10:32 PM	#15
RAMBA Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 102	I have been trying to obtain shipping quotes for a small wooden mask coming up for sale in the USA. International shipping - I think we have a new stupid quote of the year. A USPS store. "Hello Can you also quote on shipping of this item below. USPS and I have already had a quote of $120 USD. Thanks *** * What are the dimensions, weight and value of this mask? Thanks ** "16 x 9 x 4.5 inches. 1.3 KG approx or less. Value $150 USD approx. Thanks" ** "Good morning, Pick-up, packaging, and shipment is apprx. $735.69. Please advise is you'd like us to proceed. Thank you!