Billy the Kid and the Colt Thunderer pistol

[Jim McDougall]

So here's the thing about Billy's M1873 Winchester so moved about in the immortal tintype of 1880. It seems (according to Paulita Maxwell, generally thought to be his girlfriend) he had this tintype made in 1880 (probably summer) at she claimed that it was done in front of Smith's saloon in town. Here Billy and his pals spent a lot of time, and Billy actually dealt cards there, and remarkably Pat Garrett was at the time bartender.

Pal Charlie Bowdrie had a CDV photo done with his wife Manuela in Las Vegas, N.M. earlier and he had his weapons, including his rifle across his lap (seated).
Billy wanted to have one done, and an itinerant photographer set up his wagon near the saloon. Accounts say it was quite easy to perform these tintypes, as equipment was inexpensive and one did not need to be professional. It seems certain the guns Billy had were his, and he brought them for the image.

It seems men in this rugged territory typically went about armed (obviously in these 'war' conditions) however Paulita said Billy was very neat about his clothes in town...and NEVER would have worn these type things except on the range. The crumpled slouch hat was also not his usual 'sugarloaf sombero' which he got from Chihuahua.
Apparently the photographer had him position the Winchester in holding position to steady him for the image, he pushed back the sweater on his RIGHT side to reveal the Colt revolver.
These tintypes (there were 4 ) cost two bits, and one ended up with newspaper which of course boosted his notoriety as a deadly outlaw.

NOW THE QUESTION:

If Billy was captured at Stinking Springs in December of 1880, and there is no mention of his Winchester......and he was held captive until his escape in April. Where was the Winchester?
Obviously he could not have had it in jail......he does not seem to have had it at Stinking Springs, and no mention is made of it at the time of his death in July (July 14, 1881 , exactly 138 hears ago) .

I saw a Winchester M1873 in the 'Billy the Kid ' museum in Ft. Sumner, N.M. several days ago, and it says it was given away by Billy 2 months before his death.

[Hombre]

In Joseph G. Rosas: "The taming of the west. Age if the gunfighter" you can read:
“Billy the Kid carried a variety of Winchester rifles and Colt revolvers during the course of his career. However it is also claimed that in about 1880 he swapped his Peacemaker for a Colt .41 caliber double-action “Thunderer”.
In the book you can also see a Whitney-Kennedy lever action carbine and the text goes:
“The Whitney-Kennedy lever-action carbine is purported to have been presented by the Kid to deputy U.S marshal Eugene Van Patten for treating him fairly when in his charge. Van Patten treasured the gift, recalling the part he played in the Kid´s life”.

/Stefan
Sweden

[fernando]

Most interesting, Hombre .

[Jim McDougall]

Hombre, thank you so much for this reference!!! I have another book by Rosa which did not include that material, so this is outstanding. Its amazing that one of the foremost experts on western gunfighters was this brilliant researcher and writer from England.
Apparently he also wrote one of the most authentic biographies of Wild Bill Hickok as well as many other articles on the west.

It seems like 'the Kid' was quite the diplomat in his exchanges with some officials, and was an eloquent letter writer as well.

The lore of the west is so fascinating, thank you again for the great heads up

[Hombre]

Thank you, guys!
I really like to read Joseph G Rosa`s books..... The books he wrote about
James Butler Hickok are outstanding and some others too....
I have been collecting books about the Old American West since I was a kid and when I started to collect old Winchesters, Marlin lever guns and Colt SAA revolver then the reference books are a must....
I only wish that I had the same library when it comes to blades...

Best,
Stefan

[Jim McDougall]

Im totally with you Hombre!!!! (PS I loved that movie with Paul Newman, "Hombre"). As I grew up mostly in the Southwest including Utah and Colorado, I have always had a deep interest in the history. While I have studied historic edged weapons for over 50 years, as we travel through these areas in the 'bookmobile' (on the road in RV for over 12 yrs) it is impossible not to be totally caught up in it.

In Albuquerque, N.M. I had the good fortune to finally find a good Winchester SRC (=saddle ring carbine). This was a worn, well used piece that has lived its rugged life here in New Mexico.
It is the 1873 (3rd model) just as Billy's, and is in .44-.40, exactly as preferred on the range as the ammo as the same as in the Colt 'peacemakers'. While far from any expert on this, I suspect this is one of the earlier ones as it still has the dovetail sight, the ladder sight was added more around 1880.

It has been 'worked' and the magazine has been shortened, the butt has been replaced (there is damage to the butt), its patina black, and the rawhide added for grip?

I wanted to add it here as we have been talking on Billy's guns, and seemed appropriate to add a genuine working gun of New Mexico of the time. In this condition scorned by collectors, I am a historian, and this carbine is steeped in history!

As you are a collector of these guns Hombre, I look forward to your insights.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

..., I suspect this is one of the earlier ones as it still has the dovetail sight, the ladder sight was added more around 1880...

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