The Beginning:- A Question

Rick · 6th July 2019, 05:13 AM

I am no philosopher Mate.
The opinion I expressed in my first response to your question must stand as stated.

Why?

Because as you reiterated in your response to Bob and I it is a simple answer to a simple question and an opinion.

Bob A · 6th July 2019, 05:54 AM

Why not the edge, then? In use, the edge delineates the first part of the blade to perform the actual function of the blade; since the function may be to cut or to puncture, the tip must be considered part of the edge.

What is the beginning of a circle?

For that matter, what is the sound of one hand clapping? Questions can appear simple; that doesn't necessarily imply that the answer will be equally simple.

We monkeys do love a puzzle, even if we must fabricate them ourselves, for our amusement nd edification.

A. G. Maisey · 6th July 2019, 06:12 AM

Rick, he who claims not to be a philosopher is probably the greatest philosopher of all, however, if your final opinion is the same as your first, then we can record that as a vote for the Big End.

And Bob, if you like the idea of the edge, or perhaps the entire circumference, then we can possibly clarify that by saying that your vote is for anywhere other than the simplicity of the Big End, or the Little End, and that you are prepared to accept all and every part of the whole as the beginning.

At this point we are not thinking in terms of any ideas of right or wrong, just in terms of personal opinions.

Bob A · 6th July 2019, 06:34 AM

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

Not a simple task.

I find it simple to get wrapped in complexity. But the ideal, for me, is to achieve that quality that mathematicians call "elegance." Usually, I fail.

Rick · 6th July 2019, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Rick, he who claims not to be a philosopher is probably the greatest philosopher of all, however, if your final opinion is the same as your first, then we can record that as a vote for the Big End.

You have requested that we put aside the philosophical and you have asked for the simple so I think we must Alan.
Ever since I petitioned Lee to create this subforum of Vikingsword all those years ago I must admit that the more I learn here the less I know.

Or possibly I am just not learning.

A. G. Maisey · 6th July 2019, 08:28 AM

You sound like me Rick.

I'm always telling people that the more I learn the less I know --- and this applies very much so with keris.

I find that my focus just becomes more and more narrow.

But anyway, my question is not a trick question, and it doesn't need deep reflection or contemplation of the metaphysical, its just a straight Saturday afternoon ask:- where does the thing begin, where does it start?

I am going somewhere with this, but I'd like to get a a weight of opinion one way or another before I move on. At the moment we've got most people leaning towards the big end of this thing as the start of it, but there are a few more regulars that I'd like to hear from, so I'll wait a while before I go any further.

JustYS · 6th July 2019, 08:28 AM

Hi Alan,

IMHO the begining of a Keris is at the Ganja.

In Indonesian language we always use word “ujung” to describe the pointy part of a weapon (ujung tombak = tip of spear).

Ujung itself means end.

Just my two cents.

Cheers,

Yohan

6th July 2019, 05:13 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I am no philosopher Mate. The opinion I expressed in my first response to your question must stand as stated. Why? Because as you reiterated in your response to Bob and I it is a simple answer to a simple question and an opinion.

6th July 2019, 05:54 AM	#2
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 435	Why not the edge, then? In use, the edge delineates the first part of the blade to perform the actual function of the blade; since the function may be to cut or to puncture, the tip must be considered part of the edge. What is the beginning of a circle? For that matter, what is the sound of one hand clapping? Questions can appear simple; that doesn't necessarily imply that the answer will be equally simple. We monkeys do love a puzzle, even if we must fabricate them ourselves, for our amusement nd edification.

6th July 2019, 06:12 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	Rick, he who claims not to be a philosopher is probably the greatest philosopher of all, however, if your final opinion is the same as your first, then we can record that as a vote for the Big End. And Bob, if you like the idea of the edge, or perhaps the entire circumference, then we can possibly clarify that by saying that your vote is for anywhere other than the simplicity of the Big End, or the Little End, and that you are prepared to accept all and every part of the whole as the beginning. At this point we are not thinking in terms of any ideas of right or wrong, just in terms of personal opinions.

6th July 2019, 06:34 AM	#4
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 435	"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." Not a simple task. I find it simple to get wrapped in complexity. But the ideal, for me, is to achieve that quality that mathematicians call "elegance." Usually, I fail.

6th July 2019, 08:28 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	You sound like me Rick. I'm always telling people that the more I learn the less I know --- and this applies very much so with keris. I find that my focus just becomes more and more narrow. But anyway, my question is not a trick question, and it doesn't need deep reflection or contemplation of the metaphysical, its just a straight Saturday afternoon ask:- where does the thing begin, where does it start? I am going somewhere with this, but I'd like to get a a weight of opinion one way or another before I move on. At the moment we've got most people leaning towards the big end of this thing as the start of it, but there are a few more regulars that I'd like to hear from, so I'll wait a while before I go any further.

6th July 2019, 08:28 AM	#7
JustYS Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 145	Hi Alan, IMHO the begining of a Keris is at the Ganja. In Indonesian language we always use word “ujung” to describe the pointy part of a weapon (ujung tombak = tip of spear). Ujung itself means end. Just my two cents. Cheers, Yohan