Italian Stiletto for comment

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Hi Wayne. While no expert, this appears to be a 19th c. "boot dagger" or gambler's dirk. They were a mode of self defense and popular in the Old West (American, that is). I'm sure with their popularity, they might have also been used in Europe?? Many of the late 19th c. bowies, gambler dirks and such were made in England and sold in N. America. Even the 'soiled doves' (ladies of ill repute) carried smaller daggers in their garters to ward off attacks, If you check out any site selling Old West memorabilia, you might come up with a similar example. Oh, if these blades could only talk, the stories they'd tell!

Hey Cap'n, , we're all students here always learnin' and these weapons actually do talk to us!!! You really nailed this one, I never thought of a western stiletto...…..in these parts.....its all about Bowie's.

You're right, many of these were made in Sheffield, just like so many Bowie's.

In looking more into these 'gamblers knives', or sometimes boot daggers, it seems in the 19th c. there were many Italians emigrating to the US, to New Orleans notably in reference to these daggers. Along with this diaspora, came the 'Black Hand' extortion racket, and these stilettos became a key weapon in these dealings. Apparently in 1874 there was a law passed in New Orleans against the sale or possession of these stilettos due to the number of killings carried out with them.

I was wondering how there was a connection from this stiletto from Italy, as Wayne indicates this one is sourced, but clearly these matters in New Orleans might give us some perspective.
The gutta percha handle is of interest, and this material was well known in pistol grips. While known earlier, to have become more regularly used after about 1850, when it was begun used more in England.

With gamblers, at least in the west, especially in san Francisco those push daggers were popular, but as mentioned, the 'working ladies' seem to have favored these stilettos. The Italians of course had a long history with them
already.

Wayne, your eclectic adventures in edged weapons know no bounds!!!
Thank you for sharing this

[kronckew]

Thanks to all! As I suspected, It can only be called an Italian by reason of it's temporary residency. I'd like to think of the Madam or one of the girls tucking it into their garter at the brothel that was Ruby Red's in New Orleans, tho it was a hamberger joint when I was stationed nearby. Good burgers then, and I recall you get a bowl of monkey nuts (peanuts in the shell) on every table, and you were encouraged to add the shells to the already deep layer on the floor. The girl's rooms, no longer in use, were upstairs and outside off the courtyard. bar had a huge oil painting of Ruby. Sadly, it's no longer in business for either of it's past occupations I hear.

p.s.- Jim, I'm going to branch out into collecting nose hair scissors, cheaper and as I age, a more usefull edged assault weapon.

[fernando]

Isn't that too long for a 'dague de pute ' ? Long enough to be a waist dagger ?

[kronckew]

19cm=7.5in
30cm=11.8in.

Kinda long for a lady with a long dress. depending on where she kept it. Long Boots? Maybe in the belt behind the back, Gambler?

One of Ruby's House Gambler's then

Haven't held it yet, maybe it'll tell me something when it gets here if I feed it a mint julep as a libation. I will of course drink any of it the dirk leaves behind.

The world is more curious than we think. So many questions, so few answers.

Found this one Googling: Very close in diminsions to mine: Listed as a 'gamblers dirk around 1850-60'. Blade looks a bit wider than my more stilettoey one. I like mine better I think, this one is a bit common looking. only sold for 6 times what I paid for mine, and scabbardless. It was apparently stamped 'Sheffield'.

[kronckew]

Never bring a gun to a knife fight - if you are closer than 5 or 6 yards. Nowadays we'd likely have saved the guy with the stomach wound.

Also found g̶u̶r̶g̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ googling.

[Jim McDougall]

LOL! great humor as always Wayne
Absolutely love New Orleans, and have been going there for many years. There is so much fascinating history, and you cannot beat the music and food. This city has been a key location through American history, and intriguing how many nations flags have flown there over the years.

These stilettos were deadly as noted with the manner of stabbing, repeated stabs where the weapon is not lodged but causes massive hemorrhaging wounds, much in the way a 'shiv' is used in the grim business in attack in prisons.

With the Bowies, far too large for this sort of carriage of course, many were indeed made in Sheffield, in fact in larger number than made here in many respects. It is not commonly realized just how many English weapons were used in American frontiers, not just the knives but often the pistols.

This example you are getting is of course a bit long for discreet wear by one of these 'ladies of the night', but probably able to be concealed by men who frequented shady places in those times wearing frock coats. Knives were often carried as in cities open carry wearing of firearms was prohibited. Often carrying small pocket pistols was done, but many of these, especially the cheap available kinds, were called 'suicide pistols' presumably for misfire rate or other issues.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

LOL! great humor as always Wayne
...Often carrying small pocket pistols was done, but many of these, especially the cheap available kinds, were called 'suicide pistols' presumably for misfire rate or other issues.

Thanks. I try. Breaks the boredom & adds colour.

I once owned a .25 pocket pistol i recall buying in Miami. Someone told me once not to actually shoot anyone with them with that, it might make them mad and they'll beat the tar outta you. It was very accurate for it's size, I'm sure I could have hit a Battlehip at 10 yards at least 5 times out of 10. I'm guessing similar ballistics and terminal lethality for you suicide pistols, allowing time for the target to get in a few jabs, essentially suicide by it's effectiveness. Might scare the horses tho. never did sink that battleship either.

p.s. - another NOLA anecdote, my Birthday, took some of the other officers to the New Orleans Playboy club. We were in summer dress white ossifer's uniforms (it was of course a bit warm out), which are tie-less. Doorman insisted he could NOT let us in without a tie. We were going to leave when his manager arrived with a solution. He 'loaned' us a tie, we each put it around our necks, walked in , took it off and tossed it back to the next. problem solved, the rule didn't say you have to keep wearing one once you were in.

The food was, as you note, unbelievably good. Best in the world. Loved my tour there, in spite of the eagle sized Mosquitos that could carry off a small child in the night...