Identifying Pamor for a First Keris

A. G. Maisey · 26th May 2019, 10:33 PM

Thank you Detlef.

You see, this is our problem:- certainty.

I also have seen & owned keris that were supposedly from Sumbawa, and other places. For many years I dealt with a gentleman in Bali who seemed to come up regularly with unusual forms of keris.

These unusual keris invariably came from places further East, invariably they had been collected by the dealer himself who periodically went island hopping through the Eastern Islands, and invariably they bore prices that I was unwilling to pay.

This gentleman passed away a few years ago, and I have since had conversations with both his wife and his two nieces, who used to work in his shop. According to them he had not been outside of Bali in 30 years.

What I have noticed about keris from the islands East of Lombok is that they seem to be of slightly degraded form and quality, not of a quality of craftsmanship that has risen above the norm, but of one that is struggling to reach the norm. I'm talking here about the Eastern Islands in general, and keris that I have been prepared to believe were actually from the Eastern Islands.

Incidentally, the Bugis who invaded Lombok in the 1600's came from already established colonies in Sumbawa, and there was continuing intercourse between these Sumbawa colonies and the new settlements in Eastern Lombok. Thus, if we wish to affix a Sumbawa origin to any keris blade, this might prove to be quite difficult.

Sajen · 30th May 2019, 03:07 PM

Here the promised pictures. The blade has as well similar long ada ada, not good to seen on the picture. I've received the keris in bad state, the blade and sarung was restored, the buntut was missing.

Sajen · 30th May 2019, 03:29 PM

We have bad lighting conditions today, maybe this two pictures are helpful.

A. G. Maisey · 30th May 2019, 10:01 PM

Yes Detlef, some similarities, as is to be expected.

However, although we can see that South Sulawesi gandhik, and other characteristics that mark this blade as Bugis, the kruwingan looks to me to extend only as far as the 3/4 luk, it is not deep kruwingan as in Tim's keris, and overall the blade does not have anything like the same deep topographic relief of Tim's blade.

I would say it is related to Tim's blade, but not, let us say, a brother, perhaps a cousin or other slightly removed relative.

26th May 2019, 10:33 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Thank you Detlef. You see, this is our problem:- certainty. I also have seen & owned keris that were supposedly from Sumbawa, and other places. For many years I dealt with a gentleman in Bali who seemed to come up regularly with unusual forms of keris. These unusual keris invariably came from places further East, invariably they had been collected by the dealer himself who periodically went island hopping through the Eastern Islands, and invariably they bore prices that I was unwilling to pay. This gentleman passed away a few years ago, and I have since had conversations with both his wife and his two nieces, who used to work in his shop. According to them he had not been outside of Bali in 30 years. What I have noticed about keris from the islands East of Lombok is that they seem to be of slightly degraded form and quality, not of a quality of craftsmanship that has risen above the norm, but of one that is struggling to reach the norm. I'm talking here about the Eastern Islands in general, and keris that I have been prepared to believe were actually from the Eastern Islands. Incidentally, the Bugis who invaded Lombok in the 1600's came from already established colonies in Sumbawa, and there was continuing intercourse between these Sumbawa colonies and the new settlements in Eastern Lombok. Thus, if we wish to affix a Sumbawa origin to any keris blade, this might prove to be quite difficult. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 26th May 2019 at 10:49 PM.

30th May 2019, 03:07 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Here the promised pictures. The blade has as well similar long ada ada, not good to seen on the picture. I've received the keris in bad state, the blade and sarung was restored, the buntut was missing. Attached Images

30th May 2019, 03:29 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	We have bad lighting conditions today, maybe this two pictures are helpful. Attached Images

30th May 2019, 10:01 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Yes Detlef, some similarities, as is to be expected. However, although we can see that South Sulawesi gandhik, and other characteristics that mark this blade as Bugis, the kruwingan looks to me to extend only as far as the 3/4 luk, it is not deep kruwingan as in Tim's keris, and overall the blade does not have anything like the same deep topographic relief of Tim's blade. I would say it is related to Tim's blade, but not, let us say, a brother, perhaps a cousin or other slightly removed relative.