Very Nice Nimcha

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 1st May 2019, 05:40 PM

The Majeerteen Sultanate From where the above picture was taken...located in the horn of Africa...below..The town marked in red is Alula on the coast.

I HAD NO IDEA THAT THERE WAS A COUNTRY CALLED THIS ..

Trading vessels had to virtually skirt around it as it was The Horn of Africa ..From Wikepedia I quote;

The Majeerteen Sultanate (Somali: Suldanadda Majeerteen, Arabic: سلطنة مجرتين‎), also known as Majeerteenia and Migiurtinia, was a Somali kingdom centered in the Horn of Africa. Ruled by Boqor Osman Mahamuud during its golden age, the sultanate controlled much of northern and central Somalia in the 19th and early 20th centuries. The polity had all of the organs of an integrated modern state and maintained a robust trading network. It also entered into treaties with foreign powers and exerted strong centralized authority on the domestic front. Much of the Sultanate's former domain is today coextensive with the autonomous Puntland region in northeastern Somalia.

Regarding the weapons here is the Saudia silvered hilt Nimcha and the Billao Somali hilt which was a swordhilt or also on a dagger... plus the Yemeni looking version with prongs and probably a result of trade to or from this very important region...particularly in the 19th C and early 20thC. as per the heavy print above.

Jim McDougall · 1st May 2019, 06:44 PM

Excellent examples of the South Arabian (Yemen/Hadhramaut) styling and of course the variation of the hilt, yet with the distinguishing 'hand nock' on the inside of the grip which seems to ideally denote 'nimcha'.

While obviously we are deviating from Charles' sword in the original post in degree, it is interesting to examine the spectrum of styling in these Mediterranean swords which are typically associated with Algeria.

The development of the form from 15th century Italian hilt styles, and blades evolving as well from Italian stortas and European falchions also provides dimension in understanding the dynamics and context in which Charles outstanding example originated and clearly held importance.

I think this Somali connected topic as well as others which have come up in examining Charles' nimcha are well worthy of their own threads to be discussed further. I never had heard of this Somalian kingdom either! but its fascinating to see the world this nimcha lived in !!!

qusko · 22nd September 2023, 07:20 PM

Hi,

What do you think about the attached saber?
Seems that it may come from Algeria, or Yemen... for me it looks like more from Yemen (hilt type) based on other posts:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15790
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21833

Blade is polished and was engraved (not much has survived).
Blade quality seems to be good. Maybe older than hilt and scabbard..

Would appreciate more information about the origin/age

TVV · 23rd September 2023, 03:42 PM

Thank you for sharing qusko. Yes, I agree with you that this is an older European blade that was originally mounted on an Algerian nimcha that was later remounted in Yemen.

Jim McDougall · 23rd September 2023, 08:41 PM

This blade does seem like those seen in 'Mediterranean' swords which seem like the flared tip curved types (as mentioned in Elgood, as well as "Arts of the Muslim Knight", which I do not have on hand).

I am not sure this blade would be European with the spines in the blade back (at least in those I am familiar with), and while European hatchet point blades (incl British M1796) have radiused points, the flare and curve are not this dramatic. Whatever the case, this example has a resemblance to the example attached.
Question: the turquoise and coral decoration does seem popular in Algeria, did Yemeni armorers use this affectation as well? The mounts do seem Yemeni.

qusko · 24th September 2023, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Question: the turquoise and coral decoration does seem popular in Algeria, did Yemeni armorers use this affectation as well? The mounts do seem Yemeni.

Jim,
Not sure about coral and turquoise, but there is also decoration in red stones (carnelian). I've found Gusbi Jambiya from Yemen with similar decoration.

https://oriental-arms.com/product/tr...om-hadhramaut/

Jim McDougall · 24th September 2023, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusko

Jim,
Not sure about coral and turquoise, but there is also decoration in red stones (carnelian). I've found Gusbi Jambiya from Yemen with similar decoration.

https://oriental-arms.com/product/tr...om-hadhramaut/

Thank you for the response Qusko! I had forgotten about those,and this really is an attractive saber, I like this type decoration.

TVV · 27th September 2023, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I am not sure this blade would be European with the spines in the blade back (at least in those I am familiar with), and while European hatchet point blades (incl British M1796) have radiused points, the flare and curve are not this dramatic.

Jim, you are bringing up some interesting questions. I have three blades that could be classified as nimchas, and while they have different hilts from Morocco, Algeria and Yemen there are some similarities in the blades. I took some quick pictures. All three blades have a spine with a groove. The two larger blades also have European marks or copies thereof. I suspect that they are therefore at the very least copies of European blades.

Jim McDougall · 28th September 2023, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Jim, you are bringing up some interesting questions. I have three blades that could be classified as nimchas, and while they have different hilts from Morocco, Algeria and Yemen there are some similarities in the blades. I took some quick pictures. All three blades have a spine with a groove. The two larger blades also have European marks or copies thereof. I suspect that they are therefore at the very least copies of European blades.

Teodor, you have in kind brought up interesting perspective with these fascinating examples. When I noted 'European' blades, I had not thought of Styrian or for that matter Italian blades, which the one in the center resembles (the center one looks like a storta type).
The top one with remarkably flared blade, Yemeni hilt, brings to mind the fanciful European term 'scimitar', and if it has a European mark it seems likely copied.

A.alnakkas · 24th September 2023, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusko

Hi,

What do you think about the attached saber?
Seems that it may come from Algeria, or Yemen... for me it looks like more from Yemen (hilt type) based on other posts:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15790
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21833

Blade is polished and was engraved (not much has survived).
Blade quality seems to be good. Maybe older than hilt and scabbard..

Would appreciate more information about the origin/age

Mounts are definitely Yemeni work. Those blades, including on nimchas, seem to have been present in Yemen in large numbers and can come on a variety of swords including 'karabelas' and other types.

qusko · 24th September 2023, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Those blades, including on nimchas, seem to have been present in Yemen in large numbers and can come on a variety of swords including 'karabelas' and other types.

Seems blade can be from XVII.
Do you have any suggestions about hilt/scabbard age? - XIX, earlier?

A.alnakkas · 24th September 2023, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusko

Seems blade can be from XVII.
Do you have any suggestions about hilt/scabbard age? - XIX, earlier?

I've seen similar work that looks like its made yesterday. I think its 20th century, and leaning more towards the other half.

1st May 2019, 05:40 PM	#1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	The Majeerteen Sultanate From where the above picture was taken...located in the horn of Africa...below..The town marked in red is Alula on the coast. I HAD NO IDEA THAT THERE WAS A COUNTRY CALLED THIS .. Trading vessels had to virtually skirt around it as it was The Horn of Africa ..From Wikepedia I quote; The Majeerteen Sultanate (Somali: Suldanadda Majeerteen, Arabic: سلطنة مجرتين‎), also known as Majeerteenia and Migiurtinia, was a Somali kingdom centered in the Horn of Africa. Ruled by Boqor Osman Mahamuud during its golden age, the sultanate controlled much of northern and central Somalia in the 19th and early 20th centuries. The polity had all of the organs of an integrated modern state and maintained a robust trading network. It also entered into treaties with foreign powers and exerted strong centralized authority on the domestic front. Much of the Sultanate's former domain is today coextensive with the autonomous Puntland region in northeastern Somalia. Regarding the weapons here is the Saudia silvered hilt Nimcha and the Billao Somali hilt which was a swordhilt or also on a dagger... plus the Yemeni looking version with prongs and probably a result of trade to or from this very important region...particularly in the 19th C and early 20thC. as per the heavy print above. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 1st May 2019 at 06:03 PM.

22nd September 2023, 07:20 PM	#3
qusko Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 62	Algerian, Yemen sabre? Hi, What do you think about the attached saber? Seems that it may come from Algeria, or Yemen... for me it looks like more from Yemen (hilt type) based on other posts: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15790 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21833 Blade is polished and was engraved (not much has survived). Blade quality seems to be good. Maybe older than hilt and scabbard.. Would appreciate more information about the origin/age Attached Images

23rd September 2023, 08:41 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	This blade does seem like those seen in 'Mediterranean' swords which seem like the flared tip curved types (as mentioned in Elgood, as well as "Arts of the Muslim Knight", which I do not have on hand). I am not sure this blade would be European with the spines in the blade back (at least in those I am familiar with), and while European hatchet point blades (incl British M1796) have radiused points, the flare and curve are not this dramatic. Whatever the case, this example has a resemblance to the example attached. Question: the turquoise and coral decoration does seem popular in Algeria, did Yemeni armorers use this affectation as well? The mounts do seem Yemeni. Attached Images

1st May 2019, 06:44 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Excellent examples of the South Arabian (Yemen/Hadhramaut) styling and of course the variation of the hilt, yet with the distinguishing 'hand nock' on the inside of the grip which seems to ideally denote 'nimcha'. While obviously we are deviating from Charles' sword in the original post in degree, it is interesting to examine the spectrum of styling in these Mediterranean swords which are typically associated with Algeria. The development of the form from 15th century Italian hilt styles, and blades evolving as well from Italian stortas and European falchions also provides dimension in understanding the dynamics and context in which Charles outstanding example originated and clearly held importance. I think this Somali connected topic as well as others which have come up in examining Charles' nimcha are well worthy of their own threads to be discussed further. I never had heard of this Somalian kingdom either! but its fascinating to see the world this nimcha lived in !!!

23rd September 2023, 03:42 PM	#4
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Thank you for sharing qusko. Yes, I agree with you that this is an older European blade that was originally mounted on an Algerian nimcha that was later remounted in Yemen.