The Manding sword, the Tuareg aljuinar and Omani curved kattara: Are they connected?

Edster · 1st April 2019, 07:16 PM

Jim,

Quote:
"So here we can establish both the Omani long hilt kattara as well as presumably the long hilt curved kattara in the African interior as far as the Great Lakes. From here, trade interaction with caravans from the north came from and returned to the regions of Sudan and Darfur. The Omani's did not go with them, but surely their influences did.
The traders from the Darfur and Sudan regions equally did not include Manding tribal traders, but again, influences from them surely were present in the same way. "

While your hypothetical is well presented and sounds reasonable, I still can't imagine that either Manding (via Darfur) agents and or Omani (via Swahili) agents had any profit to be had by inter-trade across the river basins of Central Africa including the Bahr el Ghazel. They both had ample slaves and ivory in their home territories and other goods could be had via their other traditional supply lines. Speke and Grant made the Zanzibar-Lake Victoria-Gondokoro, South Sudan on the Nile in the Oct. 1860-Jan. 1863 period. But other than to find the source of the Nile, what would be the point.

Best,
Ed

Jim McDougall · 1st April 2019, 11:29 PM

Ed,
I think that I may not have properly emphasized, it was not that any sort of profit oriented trade or materials were being 'brokered' via these trade routes and networks, it is simply that these networks were a conduit for 'influences'.

If I travel to Europe, and am wearing a pair of boots from Texas, is it possible that someone or even a number of people might find them interesting, and wish to also have this kind of boots. While my purpose there might have nothing to do with selling boots, still they have attracted interest, and perhaps initiate some degree of influence.

It was not about transiting goods into these other regions, but the fact that caravans did traverse through many regions and connect with other caravans from other regions. Is it not possible that just normal human interaction, not commerce, might have exposed and transmitted influences across these great distances?

We see this constantly in fads, fashions and popular culture. The interest in something 'exotic', unusual to ones locale, and which would be thought to enhance ones status or mystique.

The Swahili factors in the Great Lakes who were operating along with Omani merchants of course had no interest in Darfur or the Manding, if they had even ever heard of them. However, 'things' which came from those regions were certainly of interest in some degree, even if only a curiosity.

Burton (and Demmin, 1877) both saw the so called Zanzibar swords (with an H type hilt), but had no idea these intriguing dirk like swords had originated in Morocco, also on the other side of the continent.....and were actually the local daggers termed s'boula.
How had they arrived in Zanzibar? Was it Moroccan agents setting up shop in Zanzibar? Of course not, but somehow, these had arrived in Zanzibar and in sufficient number to have been thought from there by these observers. It was not until Buttin (1933) set the record straight.

The diffusion of such things as styles, ideas, fashion, religion and others does not require a structured system of transmission, nor profit oriented agency in certain contact points to move in fact. almost randomly. This is primarily what I was trying to say.

1st April 2019, 07:16 PM	#1
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 411	Jim, Quote: "So here we can establish both the Omani long hilt kattara as well as presumably the long hilt curved kattara in the African interior as far as the Great Lakes. From here, trade interaction with caravans from the north came from and returned to the regions of Sudan and Darfur. The Omani's did not go with them, but surely their influences did. The traders from the Darfur and Sudan regions equally did not include Manding tribal traders, but again, influences from them surely were present in the same way. " While your hypothetical is well presented and sounds reasonable, I still can't imagine that either Manding (via Darfur) agents and or Omani (via Swahili) agents had any profit to be had by inter-trade across the river basins of Central Africa including the Bahr el Ghazel. They both had ample slaves and ivory in their home territories and other goods could be had via their other traditional supply lines. Speke and Grant made the Zanzibar-Lake Victoria-Gondokoro, South Sudan on the Nile in the Oct. 1860-Jan. 1863 period. But other than to find the source of the Nile, what would be the point. Best, Ed

1st April 2019, 11:29 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Ed, I think that I may not have properly emphasized, it was not that any sort of profit oriented trade or materials were being 'brokered' via these trade routes and networks, it is simply that these networks were a conduit for 'influences'. If I travel to Europe, and am wearing a pair of boots from Texas, is it possible that someone or even a number of people might find them interesting, and wish to also have this kind of boots. While my purpose there might have nothing to do with selling boots, still they have attracted interest, and perhaps initiate some degree of influence. It was not about transiting goods into these other regions, but the fact that caravans did traverse through many regions and connect with other caravans from other regions. Is it not possible that just normal human interaction, not commerce, might have exposed and transmitted influences across these great distances? We see this constantly in fads, fashions and popular culture. The interest in something 'exotic', unusual to ones locale, and which would be thought to enhance ones status or mystique. The Swahili factors in the Great Lakes who were operating along with Omani merchants of course had no interest in Darfur or the Manding, if they had even ever heard of them. However, 'things' which came from those regions were certainly of interest in some degree, even if only a curiosity. Burton (and Demmin, 1877) both saw the so called Zanzibar swords (with an H type hilt), but had no idea these intriguing dirk like swords had originated in Morocco, also on the other side of the continent.....and were actually the local daggers termed s'boula. How had they arrived in Zanzibar? Was it Moroccan agents setting up shop in Zanzibar? Of course not, but somehow, these had arrived in Zanzibar and in sufficient number to have been thought from there by these observers. It was not until Buttin (1933) set the record straight. The diffusion of such things as styles, ideas, fashion, religion and others does not require a structured system of transmission, nor profit oriented agency in certain contact points to move in fact. almost randomly. This is primarily what I was trying to say.