Pala - translation on the blade

Kubur · 12th March 2019, 08:28 PM

Unfortunately not
Please read the following text then you will know where this pala comes from

The Bektashi Order is a Sufi order and shares much in common with other Islamic mystical movements, such as the need for an experienced spiritual guide—called a baba in Bektashi parlance — as well as the doctrine of "the four gates that must be traversed": the "Sharia" (religious law), "Tariqah" (the spiritual path), "Marifa" (true knowledge), "Haqiqah" (truth).

Bektashism is also heavily permeated with Shiite concepts, such as the marked reverence of Ali, The Twelve Imams, and the ritual commemoration of Ashurah marking the Battle of Karbala. The old Persian holiday of Nowruz is celebrated by Bektashis as Imam Ali's birthday.

The Bektashi order was widespread in the Ottoman Empire, their lodges being scattered throughout Anatolia as well as many parts of particularly the southern Balkans (especially Albania, Bulgaria, Epirus, and both Vardar Macedonia and Greek Macedonia) and also in the imperial city of Constantinople. The order had close ties with the Janissary corps, the elite infantry corp of the Ottoman Army, and therefore also became mainly associated with Anatolian and Balkan Muslims of Eastern Orthodox convert origin, mainly Albanians and northern Greeks (although most leading Bektashi babas were of southern Albanian origin). With the abolition of Janissaries, the Bektashi order was banned throughout the Ottoman Empire by Sultan Mahmud II in 1826. This decision was supported by the Sunni religious elite as well as the leaders of other, more orthodox, Sufi orders. Bektashi tekkes were closed and their dervishes were exiled. Bektashis slowly regained freedom with the coming of the Tanzimat era. After the foundation of republic, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk banned all Sufi orders and shut down the lodges in 1925. Consequently, the Bektashi leadership moved to Albania and established their headquarters in the city of Tirana. Among the most famous followers of Bektashi Sufism in the 19th century Balkans were Ali Pasha and Naim Frashëri.

Edster · 12th March 2019, 10:01 PM

Kubur,

Well done. I never know of that group.

Ed

qusko · 12th March 2019, 10:49 PM

Dear All

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and investigations - very helpful!
I've found the date on the blade and tried to match it with islamic digits.
For me it looks like 1248 which gives 1832

ALEX · 13th March 2019, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Unfortunately not
Please read the following text then you will know where this pala comes from

What is the connection between the Bektashi mystical order, which was "widespread in the Ottoman Empire" or any other Sufi movements, and the subject Pala, or any arm or sword for that matter? Did Sufi dervishes make or even wear Palas?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

The zig-zag decoration on the brass scabbard parts also looks like a typical Balkan decorative element to me.

A lot of arms made in the Balkans at one point traveled to Syria and Egypt - seeing a pala in a Syrian context means it was used there, but does not automatically mean it was made there.

Indeed, weapons traveled throughout the vast Ottoman empire and were produced and used in different places. They did not only move from Balkans to Syria, but other way as well... especially Kilijes and Palas I would think

Similarly, the zigzag decoration was/is not typical Balkan element. It is very common Ottoman (and many other locales) technique.

Richard G · 14th March 2019, 02:32 PM

Kubur,
Thank you, we live and learn.
Regards
Richard

ariel · 15th March 2019, 11:50 PM

The “ Ali/Zulfiqar” saying is attributed directly to Mohammed. As such, it was and is widely used by Shia and Sunni alike. There is no religious divide here.

Implying that this Pala is Balkan and designating it as Shia is a contradiction in terms: Balkan Muslims were and are overwhelmingly Sunni.

Bektashism was rooted among the Janissaries, but those were forcibly disbanded and their remnants were hunted and killed in and after 1826, well before this Pala was created. Bektashi order was banned throughout the entire Ottoman Empire. It gradually got revived somewhat with the advent of Tanzimat era (1839-1876) but their numbers within the Balkan Muslims was negligible. With total abolition of Bektashism by Ataturk in 1925 they moved to Albania and established their headquarters there.
Are we to believe that this Pala was created after that?

We seem to have a lot of questionable arguments here.......

TVV · 16th March 2019, 01:12 AM

Ariel is right, the Ali/Zulfiqar inscription was quite popular and used throughout the Ottoman Empire, and cannot really be used to point to a specific area of origin.

Here is one on a yataghan from Asia Minor:

http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18304

And another one, also on a Turkish yataghan:

http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4448

And another one on a Bosnian yataghan:

http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12864

Note the similarity in the style of the coftgari decoration of Jose's yataghan and the pala in this thread.

Kubur · 16th March 2019, 10:41 AM

I see different levels of knowledge here.
I gave you keys to understand, you can pick up what you want.
I'm sure other members understand very well...

12th March 2019, 10:49 PM	#3
qusko Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 64	Dear All Thank you for sharing your knowledge and investigations - very helpful! I've found the date on the blade and tried to match it with islamic digits. For me it looks like 1248 which gives 1832 Attached Images

15th March 2019, 11:50 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The “ Ali/Zulfiqar” saying is attributed directly to Mohammed. As such, it was and is widely used by Shia and Sunni alike. There is no religious divide here. Implying that this Pala is Balkan and designating it as Shia is a contradiction in terms: Balkan Muslims were and are overwhelmingly Sunni. Bektashism was rooted among the Janissaries, but those were forcibly disbanded and their remnants were hunted and killed in and after 1826, well before this Pala was created. Bektashi order was banned throughout the entire Ottoman Empire. It gradually got revived somewhat with the advent of Tanzimat era (1839-1876) but their numbers within the Balkan Muslims was negligible. With total abolition of Bektashism by Ataturk in 1925 they moved to Albania and established their headquarters there. Are we to believe that this Pala was created after that? We seem to have a lot of questionable arguments here....... Last edited by ariel; 16th March 2019 at 12:26 AM.

12th March 2019, 08:28 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Unfortunately not Please read the following text then you will know where this pala comes from The Bektashi Order is a Sufi order and shares much in common with other Islamic mystical movements, such as the need for an experienced spiritual guide—called a baba in Bektashi parlance — as well as the doctrine of "the four gates that must be traversed": the "Sharia" (religious law), "Tariqah" (the spiritual path), "Marifa" (true knowledge), "Haqiqah" (truth). Bektashism is also heavily permeated with Shiite concepts, such as the marked reverence of Ali, The Twelve Imams, and the ritual commemoration of Ashurah marking the Battle of Karbala. The old Persian holiday of Nowruz is celebrated by Bektashis as Imam Ali's birthday. The Bektashi order was widespread in the Ottoman Empire, their lodges being scattered throughout Anatolia as well as many parts of particularly the southern Balkans (especially Albania, Bulgaria, Epirus, and both Vardar Macedonia and Greek Macedonia) and also in the imperial city of Constantinople. The order had close ties with the Janissary corps, the elite infantry corp of the Ottoman Army, and therefore also became mainly associated with Anatolian and Balkan Muslims of Eastern Orthodox convert origin, mainly Albanians and northern Greeks (although most leading Bektashi babas were of southern Albanian origin). With the abolition of Janissaries, the Bektashi order was banned throughout the Ottoman Empire by Sultan Mahmud II in 1826. This decision was supported by the Sunni religious elite as well as the leaders of other, more orthodox, Sufi orders. Bektashi tekkes were closed and their dervishes were exiled. Bektashis slowly regained freedom with the coming of the Tanzimat era. After the foundation of republic, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk banned all Sufi orders and shut down the lodges in 1925. Consequently, the Bektashi leadership moved to Albania and established their headquarters in the city of Tirana. Among the most famous followers of Bektashi Sufism in the 19th century Balkans were Ali Pasha and Naim Frashëri.

12th March 2019, 10:01 PM	#2
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 440	Kubur, Well done. I never know of that group. Ed

14th March 2019, 02:32 PM	#5
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 415	Kubur, Thank you, we live and learn. Regards Richard

16th March 2019, 01:12 AM	#7
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,727	Ariel is right, the Ali/Zulfiqar inscription was quite popular and used throughout the Ottoman Empire, and cannot really be used to point to a specific area of origin. Here is one on a yataghan from Asia Minor: http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18304 And another one, also on a Turkish yataghan: http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4448 And another one on a Bosnian yataghan: http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12864 Note the similarity in the style of the coftgari decoration of Jose's yataghan and the pala in this thread.

16th March 2019, 10:41 AM	#8
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	I see different levels of knowledge here. I gave you keys to understand, you can pick up what you want. I'm sure other members understand very well...