English silverhilted hanger 17thC

cornelistromp · 5th March 2019, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Jasper, that is an amazing hanger! Beautiful silver work and I love the face on the pommel cap! I see it was made by the Wundes family. The length of it perhaps indicates it wasn't just a hunting implement, but a weapon as well. The grotesque monsters and faces were popular on English and Dutch swords of this period. Since it is something different for you, feel free to let me reduce your stress and take it off your hands for you!!

Mark

I reserve your proposal and come back to you if the stress is indeed too heavy to handle.

best,
Jasper

Jim McDougall · 5th March 2019, 07:40 PM

I agree Cap'n Mark, the heft and profile of that blade along with the amazing silver suggests some profound possibilities of nautical context

perhaps an officers hanger/cutlass?
Jasper, with Dutch and English so closely connected in this period, could this weapon have been indiscriminate enough to fit into your collection on those grounds?

cornelistromp · 6th March 2019, 10:45 AM

this type of hangers were not necessarily worn during the hunt but often in civilian outfit.
that it is purely English does not really bother me,... it is a beautiful stranger

best,
Jasper

M ELEY · 6th March 2019, 11:23 AM

Truly so, Jasper, a beautiful piece! As Jim indicated, it very well might have seen sea service, as many officers at the time carried fine hangers such as this. Brass and silver hilts were supplanting the earlier iron hilts, as they were resistant to salty air and rust. The sea monster head/dog head quillon on yours is so reminiscent of the so called 'dog head' English naval cutlasses of the same period, themselves resembling the kastane.

cornelistromp · 6th March 2019, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Truly so, Jasper, a beautiful piece! As Jim indicated, it very well might have seen sea service, as many officers at the time carried fine hangers such as this. Brass and silver hilts were supplanting the earlier iron hilts, as they were resistant to salty air and rust. The sea monster head/dog head quillon on yours is so reminiscent of the so called 'dog head' English naval cutlasses of the same period, themselves resembling the kastane.

do you have some kind proof for a silver sea service hanger?
your hanger picture is the type of hanger of a famous Dutch guy, Michiel de Ruyter.
Iam still looking for good example of this type.

best,

M ELEY · 6th March 2019, 09:59 PM

I will hit my books, but you are right that I can't say for sure that there were silver 'naval' hangers. I do know that silver was replacing the the early (1640's-50's) English iron hangers that did frequently go to sea. The brass hangers are well documented naval pieces. Just have to do some research to see if I can find examples...

Victrix · 6th March 2019, 10:48 PM

I read somewhere that sabres with silvered hilts would be carried by hussars working as guards for private estates and castles in Hungary in the 18thC. Brass/gilded hilts were reserved for use by the Crown. Could then silver hilt hangers have been worn by officers in the Honourable East India Company and other private groups? Just a thought.

6th March 2019, 11:23 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Truly so, Jasper, a beautiful piece! As Jim indicated, it very well might have seen sea service, as many officers at the time carried fine hangers such as this. Brass and silver hilts were supplanting the earlier iron hilts, as they were resistant to salty air and rust. The sea monster head/dog head quillon on yours is so reminiscent of the so called 'dog head' English naval cutlasses of the same period, themselves resembling the kastane. Attached Images

5th March 2019, 07:40 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	I agree Cap'n Mark, the heft and profile of that blade along with the amazing silver suggests some profound possibilities of nautical context perhaps an officers hanger/cutlass? Jasper, with Dutch and English so closely connected in this period, could this weapon have been indiscriminate enough to fit into your collection on those grounds?

6th March 2019, 10:45 AM	#3
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	this type of hangers were not necessarily worn during the hunt but often in civilian outfit. that it is purely English does not really bother me,... it is a beautiful stranger best, Jasper

6th March 2019, 09:59 PM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	I will hit my books, but you are right that I can't say for sure that there were silver 'naval' hangers. I do know that silver was replacing the the early (1640's-50's) English iron hangers that did frequently go to sea. The brass hangers are well documented naval pieces. Just have to do some research to see if I can find examples...

6th March 2019, 10:48 PM	#7
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 755	I read somewhere that sabres with silvered hilts would be carried by hussars working as guards for private estates and castles in Hungary in the 18thC. Brass/gilded hilts were reserved for use by the Crown. Could then silver hilt hangers have been worn by officers in the Honourable East India Company and other private groups? Just a thought.